Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm?

[longhorn_92]

I also want to thank everyone for the helpful replies here. Based on the feedback in this and a couple of other threads on this forum, and some hands on range time with the M&P 9mm, I have gone ahead and purchased one! It fits my hand better than any off-the-shelf handgun that I have tried so far. The three different size backstraps really work. The only nit that I have with it is that the trigger could be a little smoother. Perhaps that will smooth out after a couple of hundred trigger pulls, otherwise I might be considering some trigger work.

Congratulations on your new purchase. I'm looking forward to hearing a range report from you soon...

[ELB]

I also want to thank everyone for the helpful replies here. Based on the feedback in this and a couple of other threads on this forum, and some hands on range time with the M&P 9mm, I have gone ahead and purchased one! ...

Whoops, I guess I am a bit late with this then -- I remembered this LA County Sheriff's bulletin after reading the first part of this thread a couple days ago, but just tonight got back to this. I ran across it at WarriorTalk (http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=54097" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). It was posted on 4 May 09. You have to weigh this against the positive reports you got in this thread. In any case, if you have any problems with your new pistol, don't hesitate to put S&W's warranty and customer service through their paces.

Importance: High

Quality of Smith & Wesson 9mm M&P pistols has become a concern because of a recent barrel failure on an in-service deputy’s pistol, coupled with additional extraction jams on deputy recruit pistols (46% of recruit class experiencing some degree of malfunctions – mostly phase-2 jam failures to extract spent casings).

A JDIC announcment canceling the authorization of Smith & Wesson 9mm M&P semi-automatic pistol models follows.

Please brief your personnel.

NOTE: Sworn personnel carrying a replacement pistol (instead of a S&W M&P) must shoot pistol qualification ASAP with that replacement on-duty and/or off-duty pistol.

Personnel who were trained to use the M&P pistol during January – April 2009 can contact BC Range for additional information.

SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT BROADCAST

ANNOUNCEMENT
TRAINING BUREAU WEAPONS TRAINING
TO: ALL SWORN PERSONNEL

SUBJECT: OFFICER SAFETY ALERT - SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOLS

RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE FORCED A DEPARTMENTAL RE-EVALUATION OF THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL AS AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL HANDGUN FOR SWORN PERSONNEL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL SIZE PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL ON-DUTY PISTOL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P COMPACT PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL OFF-DUTY PISTOL.

SINCE FIRST APPROVAL AS AN OPTIONAL PISTOL ON DECEMBER 10, 2008, THE FULL-SIZED AND/OR COMPACT VERSIONS OF THE 9MM SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOL HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED BY 49 SWORN PERSONNEL ON AND OFF DUTY. ONE OF THESE PISTOLS WAS DELIVERED NEW WITH AN IMPROPERLY MACHINED BARREL THAT WOULD NOT EJECT SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS. ANOTHER OF THESE PISTOLS EXPERIENCED A BARREL FAILURE IN MID-APRIL OF THIS YEAR. AFTER FIRING LESS THAN 10,000 ROUNDS OF TRAINING AMMUNITION. THIS PISTOL BARREL BROKE INTO TWO PIECES JUST AHEAD OF THE FIRING CHAMBER.

ADDITIONALLY, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DEPUTY ACADEMY CLASS #377 RECRUITS WITH ISSUED NEW SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL-SIZE PISTOLS HAVE EXPERIENCED PHASE-2 PISTOL MALFUNCTIONS, CAUSED BY SPENT CASINGS FAILING TO EXTRACT FROM BARREL CHAMBERS, DURING THE PAST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. CLASS #377 RECRUITS WILL BE ISSUED BERETTA 92FS PISTOLS ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 29, 2009, AND THEIR M&P PISTOLS REMOVED FROM SERVICE.

PERSONNEL SAFETY AND RELIABLE EQUIPMENT REMAIN OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS.

LEROY D. BACA, SHERIFF

[ChuckW]

I also want to thank everyone for the helpful replies here. Based on the feedback in this and a couple of other threads on this forum, and some hands on range time with the M&P 9mm, I have gone ahead and purchased one! ...

Whoops, I guess I am a bit late with this then -- I remembered this LA County Sheriff's bulletin after reading the first part of this thread a couple days ago, but just tonight got back to this. I ran across it at WarriorTalk (http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=54097" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). It was posted on 4 May 09. You have to weigh this against the positive reports you got in this thread. In any case, if you have any problems with your new pistol, don't hesitate to put S&W's warranty and customer service through their paces.

Importance: High

Quality of Smith & Wesson 9mm M&P pistols has become a concern because of a recent barrel failure on an in-service deputy’s pistol, coupled with additional extraction jams on deputy recruit pistols (46% of recruit class experiencing some degree of malfunctions – mostly phase-2 jam failures to extract spent casings).




LEROY D. BACA, SHERIFF

.....................

Thanks for posting this, even though I have already purchased an M&P. :)
I read the whole referenced thread and certainly have no reason to doubt the Sheriff's memo that the described failures really occurred. However, here is a counter balancing post from the 5th page of the same thread:

---------------------------------------------------------

"I get a little tired of Agencies rushing to disavow a specific weapon then releasing a "slam" memo with little to no data. I am the Range Master of a large Texas police department and we have had far more experience with the M&P then what LASO is claiming regarding their M&P 9's.

"After much testing our agency picked the M&P 40 as the next "to be issued" gun once the money is made available. In the past, with almost 2000 sworn officers, our City felt it would be cheaper to maintain an "Approved Weapons List" as opposed to issuing guns after 1998. We previously issued the S&W 5946/5906's. We did NOT choose the M&P based on some old loyalty to S&W because, frankly, we were not a big fan of the 5946/5906's and after the Sigma, you have to really question a company's direction. However, we tested the 40, 9 and 45 and we were very impressed with them. The decision literally came down to the Glock 22 or the M&P 40. Due to the interchangable backstrap fitting a wider variety of hands, the M&P was chosen as the front runner. Now having said that, we have over 300+ M&P's on the street right now. A majority of them are chambered in 40 and the rest are a smattering of 9mm and 45's.

"We required our last (2) cadet classes to purchase the M&P 40 which equates to roughly 130 guns. Each cadet shot a minimum of 5000+ rounds during their 8 months in our academy. We did not experience a single barrel rupture, other catastrophic failure or any other significant issue. We did experience other smaller issues like a large amount of slide stops breaking on the right hand side and two slides cracked near the forward right side slide rail and a few guns failed to keep a magazine locked in but these were fixed very quickly by S&W. We did not have excessive problems with the FTE or FTF malfunctions. Did we experience some FTE and FTF's? Of course, but not any more than we experience with Glocks, Sigs, HK's and the other weapons on the list. At the rate we experienced FTE/FTF malfunctions, ammunition and worn springs could not be ruled out as being major contributors so I hazard to blame it on the design of the weapon. The M&P 40 has proven itself to us to be very durable and reliable. If it did not I would not hesitate in a minute to pull any weapon from our list that would put any officer in a dangerous position. I could care less about the brand or what not!

"Of the 5 firearms instructors I have working for me they have each fired a little more than 20k rounds through their M&P 40's and we have not expereince any problems. I personally have a M&P 9 that has a little over 45K rounds down the pipe and it has never expereince a single significant bobble. I have needed to replace the recoil spring a few times and have replaced the mag springs but it's still cranking out the rounds without a problem.

"Honestly, I hope no one takes offense, but the keyboard warriors out there need to have a reality check: NO gun is 100% reliable 100% of the time. As an LEO I can NOT afford to soley trust any one weapon system because like anything else that is a machine, it will inevitably fail!

"Just my 2-cent. But hell, what do I know, if the information comes from California it must always be right..... "

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I guess that I now own an M&P I'll just have to see what my experience turns out to be!

[CompVest]

[varko]

I have a complete set of S&W M&Ps. I haven't had any trouble with any of them. I have over 44,000 rounds through my primary a standard 9mm. I have well over 2000 through my compact 9 and 10,000 though my standard 40. The 45 has well over 20,000 through it. I use them for carry and for IDPA matches. They get a lot of work.

Have you ever used your 9mm Compact in IDPA? If so, how did it compare to the standard size?

[Seventhsword]

I have one and love it....

[CompVest]

Yes, I have used my 9C in competition but only in the BUG matches. It was flawless and the last time I was first place with it. It compares favorably as far as accuracy. But I won't be using it in a regular match as I have a full size and don't see any reason to use the compact. I have quite a bit more practice with the standard size as far as all the administrative stuff like the draw, reloads, and target acquisition. The added length of the grip makes the admin stuff easier and quicker.

[ELB]

.....................

Thanks for posting this, even though I have already purchased an M&P. :)
...

I guess that I now own an M&P I'll just have to see what my experience turns out to be!

Yes of course -- since you are just using a single M&P instead of a fleet, the statistic that really matters is how well does your pistol operate. Obviously the odd are in favor of it doing well, and I hope you enjoy it. The interchangeable backstrap idea is kind of neat -- the main reason I don't shoot a Glock is that it just doesn't quite fit my hand as well as the FN Hi Power I have.

I have to say I did find that "Texas Range Master" tirade a bit amusing. He slams the LASO for "little or no data" (altho the memo quotes 46% of a recruit class had some kind of malfunction with their M&P 9), launches a huge paragraph extolling the M&P 40 (which is closely related, but different pistol), then signs off with a dismissive comment about data from California (not that I am any great admirer of Califorinia in general or Sheriff Baca in particular). Yet if you read his verbiage closely, you realize his entire dataset for the M&P 9 is "a smattering" and his own...as in one... personal pistol... Heh.

Anyway, shoot the dickens out it, as your budget will allow, and report back.

best,

elb

[CompVest]

The only substantiated by personal knowledge reports I have of any issues with the M&Ps are reported by two shooters I know to have issues caused by their shooting habits.

[Drewthetexan]

I put another 250 rounds through mine today; no failures. Aside from the issues my ex girlfriend experienced, about 1000 rounds without a problem now.

[lawrnk]

I have the .40 compact. Love it, and I'm a glock dude. Frankly I bought it because it was "environmentally friendly" (no paper), but I ended up loving it. still big for a CCW, but opne day I hope to find the right holster for it.

[SkipB]

varko, My wife and I were at the Hewitt Gun Shop this past Saturday and she looked at a S&W 9c and told me she wanted it. I will go there one day this week and buy it for her. We live in Hewitt which is a suberb on the southside of Waco. If your close and would like to drive over one weekend day we will take you and your wife to the range we shoot at as our guest and your wife can shoot the 9c. Just an offer.

[varko]

Yes, I have used my 9C in competition but only in the BUG matches. It was flawless and the last time I was first place with it. It compares favorably as far as accuracy. But I won't be using it in a regular match as I have a full size and don't see any reason to use the compact. I have quite a bit more practice with the standard size as far as all the administrative stuff like the draw, reloads, and target acquisition. The added length of the grip makes the admin stuff easier and quicker.

Yeah, that’s what I thought you might be doing. That’s cool to hear that the accuracy is comparable.

I bought a standard size M&P 9 this past weekend, and I have to say I REALLY like this gun. It’s easily the most comfortable polymer pistol I have shot. I’ll still be using my Glock 26 for everyday carry, but I can see myself eventually replacing it with a 9C.

Thanks again to everyone for the very informative input.

[varko]

varko, My wife and I were at the Hewitt Gun Shop this past Saturday and she looked at a S&W 9c and told me she wanted it. I will go there one day this week and buy it for her. We live in Hewitt which is a suberb on the southside of Waco. If your close and would like to drive over one weekend day we will take you and your wife to the range we shoot at as our guest and your wife can shoot the 9c. Just an offer.

I really appreciate the offer. If I lived closer I would take you up on that. My wife has a Taurus PT111 that we picked up about a month ago that she really likes, but I’m beginning to think she’d like the 9C better.

[Rockrz]

What would be considered a good price for a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm version?