Firearms in Federal Park

[fredtubbs]

OK - just need a double check from the wise members of this board.

I am going camping this weekend in a Federal Park in Texas. I have a CHL. As I understand it, I am fine to bring my loaded, concealed handgun now.

The Obama administration has not been able to overturn the change instituted by Bush.

Correct?

[Keith B]

OK - just need a double check from the wise members of this board.

I am going camping this weekend in a Federal Park in Texas. I have a CHL. As I understand it, I am fine to bring my loaded, concealed handgun now.

The Obama administration has not been able to overturn the change instituted by Bush.

Correct?

Depends which park. If it is a Corp of Engineer's 'park', then no, you can't. If you are talking about a 'National' park like Big Bend, then yes, can carry there. See http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/firearms.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT TO ADD: You still can't carry inside the buildings. Loophole question; if you have to use the restroom in a National Park, do you have to leave your weapon in the vehcile??

[Purplehood]

I sent an e-mail to the Park Manager and advised him that if I could not carry in the restroom, it might shorten any trips that I make to the park.

[fredtubbs]

Oh - it is a Corp. of Engineers park.
Just found this about gun regulations at US Army Corp. of Engineers parks?

http://www.swf.usace.army.mil/pubdata/o ... itle36.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

So, I guess I won't be able to protect myself this weekend.

[Keith B]

I was kinda thinking most of the National Parks have a LOT of trees.....

[Keith B]

Oh - it is a Corp. of Engineers park.

Does anyone have a link with information on gun regulations at US Army Corp. of Engineers parks?

Corps of Engineers campgrounds/parks prohibit firearms period unless you are hunting then a special permit is required. Here is the link for Benbrook http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/benbro ... p#Firearms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but all of them are the same from any I have ever seen.

[Purplehood]

We talking about the same park (Big Bend)? The website states that you can carry, but spells out the exceptions.

[Bob Landry]

I think the regulation specifies National Parks, National Monuments and land under the authority of the BLM.. That would exclude Corps of Army Engineers control facilities.

[Keith B]

We talking about the same park (Big Bend)? The website states that you can carry, but spells out the exceptions.

In National Parks which are governed under the Department of the Interior, you now can carry a firearm according to the state concealed weapons/handgun laws per 36 CFR 2.4. BLM is seperate IIRC. I highlighted firearm because while some states allow other weapons with a CWP, the Federal ruling only allows firearms.

However, the 18 USC 930 is still in effect for the park, which states:

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

And section 1 defines facility as:
(1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

Now, the question is, are the Federal employees regularly there performing their official duties? (not doodies LOL.) I would say if the restroom is only accessible via the main visitors center, etc. that the area would be off limits. Also, if you want to stretch it, the Federal employees that clean and maintain the restrooms are probably there performing THEIR official duties, so it COULD be construed as even a bath house in a camp ground or stand alone restroom would be off limits.

[Purplehood]

My e-mail to the park:

I need clarification.

With a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License I can carry in the park, but I
cannot go to the restroom?
That might cut my trip a bit short. Please clarify.

Response that I just received:

Most of the restrooms in the park are adjacent to visitor centers. Simply
leave your weapon in your vehicle while you visit the visitor center and
the restrooms. There are a few "portapotties" scattered throughout the
park - these are not considered federal buildings, and you can certainly
carry your handgun into the portapotty if you wish to do so.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

Please contact me again if I can be of further assistance.

[Keith B]

My e-mail to the park:

I need clarification.

With a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License I can carry in the park, but I
cannot go to the restroom?
That might cut my trip a bit short. Please clarify.

Response that I just received:

Most of the restrooms in the park are adjacent to visitor centers. Simply
leave your weapon in your vehicle while you visit the visitor center and
the restrooms. There are a few "portapotties" scattered throughout the
park - these are not considered federal buildings, and you can certainly
carry your handgun into the portapotty if you wish to do so.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

Please contact me again if I can be of further assistance.

Thanks for getting the clarification. Exactly what I said above, but it does clear us for those buildings that don't have an administrative function attached.

[txmatt]

Kind of OT, but has anyone ever tried to secure written permission from a district commander for a COE park?

I would imagine permission is hardly ever issued, but am curious whether anyone on this board has tried.

[GrillKing]

Thanks for getting the clarification. Exactly what I said above, but it does clear us for those buildings that don't have an administrative function attached.

I don't think it has to do with whether an administrative function is attached. I think it has to do with ownership. Portapotties are likely rented. Stand alone (permanent) restrooms with or without an attached visitors center are likely owned by the government.

[fredtubbs]

So, why is there a difference in Copr of Engineer parks not allowing concealed weapons?

[Keith B]

Thanks for getting the clarification. Exactly what I said above, but it does clear us for those buildings that don't have an administrative function attached.

I don't think it has to do with whether an administrative function is attached. I think it has to do with ownership. Portapotties are likely rented. Stand alone (permanent) restrooms with or without an attached visitors center are likely owned by the government.

The rules state '....where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.'
There is no definition stating rented or owned in the guidelines. A leased or rented building can be deemed a Federal facility under the rules.

What brings the NPS interpretation into it is the link to Big Bend National Park http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/firearms.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; stating 'administrative areas' and the email response from Mr. Ranger (for you Yogi Bear fans) that Purplehood received indication stay clear of buildings where people regularly work. With that said, yes, a permanent building of any type could be construed as a Federal facility as Federal employees perform their regular duties in them, but it sounds like the NPS folks are using some common sense (heaven forbid) to dictate what is an isn't off limits to a CHL holder.