RI rolls out the welcome mat for scum

[asleepatthereel]

Just saw the 'concealed' part of that statement. As far as I know, it is correct that regardless of commision status, concealed carry is a no-no.

Correct; if comissioned, and working as a comissioned officer, (i.e. an armed contract) you can wear all you want arsenal in plain view, but a derringer in your pocket will get you arrested. IMO, this is one of the things that should be quietly changed, as most of the comissioned guards I know who are serious about their work would love to have a P3AT or similar tucked away out of sight in addition to the visible duty weapon.

[Liberty]

A licensed Security guard in Texas can not carry a concealed weapon on duty.

Perhaps, but this story happened in Rhode Island, not Texas.

I understand, but my point is that although we can hold ourselves in rightous indignation over the way the guard was treated in Rhode Island. It could easily play out the same here, except the security guard could be criminally charged in Texas.

[jimlongley]

It's Rhode Island, after all.

[Liko81]

Well, I think the issue they are trying to bring to light was that he was NOT supposed to be carrying a firearm while working. The other issue is that he fired and possibly missed. I don't know how this particular hospital is set up, but most hospitals have oxygen running through pipeline throughout the building to provide oxygen to patients in their respective rooms. My concern here is that IF that bullet were to penetrate the wall and hit that pipe, well, I don't think I would want to be in that vicinity.

And because of that system, a hospital building has a high-oxygen atmosphere just because masks and hoses aren't completely airtight. Simply firing a gun can create a huge blast as the flash from the powder will carry much further when there's more oxygen to sustain the flame. Oxygen isn't, by itself, a flammable gas. What it does do is make things that are normally flame-retardant or inflammable burn much more readily, and increase the temperature of flames.

[frankie_the_yankee]

And because of that system, a hospital building has a high-oxygen atmosphere just because masks and hoses aren't completely airtight. Simply firing a gun can create a huge blast as the flash from the powder will carry much further when there's more oxygen to sustain the flame. Oxygen isn't, by itself, a flammable gas. What it does do is make things that are normally flame-retardant or inflammable burn much more readily, and increase the temperature of flames.

Do you have any actual data on this?

The reason I am skeptical that this (oxygen leakage leading to a high O2 content in the hospital atmosphere) would not be a problem is that I am old enough to remember when you could smoke cigarettes in some areas of hospitals. And to light them requires some kind of open flame from a lighter or match. I've never known this to result in any kind of unusual fire breaking out. Nor do I, as a former smoker, ever recall cigarettes burning faster than normal, etc.

Basically, I think we are overthinking this. The administrators aren't claiming any safety hazard related to guns and oxygen. They are just emphasizing and defending their no guns policy.

[frankie_the_yankee]

There used to be a security guard that used to hang around here, and the way he explained it, was that in Texas if a security guard (even if he had a CHL) was caught with a handgun on duty and he wasn't certified, he would be in a boatload of trouble.
A licensed Security guard in Texas can not carry a concealed weapon on duty.

That is only correct if he or she does not carry a commision. Commisioned security officers carry weapons. Non commisioned do not. This is true regardless of whether or not they have a CHL. CHL holders employed as non commisioned security officers cannot legally carry while on duty.

The law in RI is totally different. There is no special license for security guards. Anybody can be employed as an unarmed guard just by putting on a uniform. And to carry a gun, all the guard needs is a RI Pistol Permit. (Note: Not a "CHL", a "Pistol Permit".)

A RI Pistol Permit allows the holder to carry a pistol or revolver "...whether concealed or not...".

The way it is written, one could fairly read it to allow for OC on the part of anyone with a permit. And in the strict legal sense, it does. But in practice, anyone OCing on the street in RI will generate a "man with a gun" call which will cause the police to take him into custody while they perform an "investigation" to determine if he has a valid permit. Under the law, they can hold you for up to 24 hrs. before either charging you or cutting you loose.

The exception is a uniformed security guard. With a pistol permit, uniformed guards can pretty much OC without problems. Some cops don't like the practice because it theoretically takes away from what would otherwise be lucrative private detail work for them. But legally, they know they can't make a practice of harassing legitimate private businesses and so they don't.

[Liko81]

And because of that system, a hospital building has a high-oxygen atmosphere just because masks and hoses aren't completely airtight. Simply firing a gun can create a huge blast as the flash from the powder will carry much further when there's more oxygen to sustain the flame. Oxygen isn't, by itself, a flammable gas. What it does do is make things that are normally flame-retardant or inflammable burn much more readily, and increase the temperature of flames.

Do you have any actual data on this?

The reason I am skeptical that this (oxygen leakage leading to a high O2 content in the hospital atmosphere) would not be a problem is that I am old enough to remember when you could smoke cigarettes in some areas of hospitals. And to light them requires some kind of open flame from a lighter or match. I've never known this to result in any kind of unusual fire breaking out. Nor do I, as a former smoker, ever recall cigarettes burning faster than normal, etc.

Basically, I think we are overthinking this. The administrators aren't claiming any safety hazard related to guns and oxygen. They are just emphasizing and defending their no guns policy.

Well, where I was mostly talking about was the wings and wards where the oxygen equipment is most used. Smoking and open flame are and have always been strictly prohibited in those areas. The only extra oxygen waiting rooms and public areas get is from portable tanks and whatever isn't diluted by the ventilation system (most hospitals have seperate vents for public areas versus the wards), so yeah, you used to be able to smoke there. Try lighting your Bic in an intensive care ward and you will probably start a flash fire. (EDIT: the more common rhyming term for lighting a lighter seems to be censored for some reason)

[anygunanywhere]

Try lighting your Bic in an intensive care ward and you will probably start a flash fire.

Not true.

If this was the case then the areas would be more highly regulated and fall under special electrical classifications of the National Electrical Code which classifies the types of equipment that is rated for hazardous atmospheres.

The first thing that would be eliminalted would be the standard electrical outlets that produce a spark each time a plug is inserted and removed then cell phones. Cell phone electronics are spark generators. There are undoubtedly more instances of people igniting gasoline vapors while filling their cars and talking on the cell phone or having static from their bodies arc to ground when reaching for the nozzle.

Open the back of your cell phone and it probably states "Not rated for hazardous atmospheres". Non-sparking devices will have the rating similar to "NEC CL1 DIV2 GR A, B, C, D". That is why typical cell phones are not allowed in refinery and chemical plants.

Areas that can reach high oxygen atmospheres are controlled too.

Anygunanywhere

[Keith B]

Cell phone electronics are spark generators. There are undoubtedly more instances of people igniting gasoline vapors while filling their cars and talking on the cell phone or having static from their bodies arc to ground when reaching for the nozzle.

Anygunanywhere

Well, partially true. There has never been a case of ignition from a cell phone documented. See http://www.pei.org/Index.aspx?p=36. The static discharge from the body to the car is the main culprit. I am also certified in propane handling due to refueling the balloon, and there has never been a fire caused by a cell phone with propane vapor, and it is MUCH more volatile than gasoline vapors.

[anygunanywhere]

Cell phone electronics are spark generators. There are undoubtedly more instances of people igniting gasoline vapors while filling their cars and talking on the cell phone or having static from their bodies arc to ground when reaching for the nozzle.

Anygunanywhere

Well, partially true. There has never been a case of ignition from a cell phone documented. See http://www.pei.org/Index.aspx?p=36. The static discharge from the body to the car is the main culprit. I am also certified in propane handling due to refueling the balloon, and there has never been a fire caused by a cell phone with propane vapor, and it is MUCH more volatile than gasoline vapors.

Thanks for that info. I still leave my cell phone alone when pumping gas.

My point was that if oxygen and anesthesia was as potentially a hazard as we were reading then the regulatory agencies would have addressed the issue.

The fact that hospitals have oxygen present is no reason to ban concealed carry.

Can I get some cheap propane for my grill and RV, Keith?

Anygun

[anygunanywhere]

Cell phone electronics are spark generators. There are undoubtedly more instances of people igniting gasoline vapors while filling their cars and talking on the cell phone or having static from their bodies arc to ground when reaching for the nozzle.

Anygunanywhere

Well, partially true. There has never been a case of ignition from a cell phone documented. See http://www.pei.org/Index.aspx?p=36. The static discharge from the body to the car is the main culprit. I am also certified in propane handling due to refueling the balloon, and there has never been a fire caused by a cell phone with propane vapor, and it is MUCH more volatile than gasoline vapors.

Thanks for that info. I still leave my cell phone alone when pumping gas.

My point was that if oxygen and anesthesia was as potentially a hazard as we were reading then the regulatory agencies would have addressed the issue.

The fact that hospitals have oxygen present is no reason to ban concealed carry.

Can I get some cheap propane for my grill and RV, Keith?

Anygun

[Keith B]

[

Can I get some cheap propane for my grill and RV, Keith?

Anygun

OT: No, but if you find some please tell me!! My price has gone from $1.25 a gallon to $2.65 a gallon over the past year. Terrible.

BOT: Most businesses and corporations are driven by their legal teams and risk management in these decisions. No offense, but risk management people always seem to take the path of least resistance. That means not potentially exposing themselves to a perceived risk with someone carrying a gun. Unfortunately, they sometimes do exactly the opposite of what is really the safest approach. Until something happens that proves their current method is wrong, then they are fat, dumb and happy in their little pens (cubicles.)

[Martini]

We can't allow security guards to carry guns in hospitals. What about the Al Qaeda MP-5 toting death squads?

[frankie_the_yankee]

FWIW, the hospital that I've been in and out of for the last few days here in Houston has armed guards all over the place.

[KD5NRH]

And because of that system, a hospital building has a high-oxygen atmosphere just because masks and hoses aren't completely airtight. Simply firing a gun can create a huge blast as the flash from the powder will carry much further when there's more oxygen to sustain the flame.

The powder already contains sufficient oxidiser to completely burn the propellant. More won't make a significant difference. Otherwise, this post would have been about a huge fire.