Fort Worth Gun Show Posted?

[Jemost]

Could this be of any assistance?

http://www.ftworthgunshow.com/rules.pdf

[Keith B]

Could this be of any assistance?

http://www.ftworthgunshow.com/rules.pdf

Not really. Any written notification still has to be worded per 30.06 to be legally binding. However, if they find out your are carrying, you can be asked to leave and not allowed back in. Best thing to do is comply with their wishes and disarm. I usually unload in the car and then have them tie-wrap my carry weapon so I don't have to secure it. Put it right back in the concealed holster and am on my way to drool on the tables.

I have noticed a similar sign to the one at Fort Worth at the Big Town show, but there is ALSO a valid 30.06 notice on the door and last time I was there on an easel also.

[57Coastie]

Very interesting, Jemost, but I do have a little difficulty reconciling #1 with #5, and when it comes to rules applicable to deadly weapons there should be no such difficulty.

#1 says (with no exceptions permitted), "no concealed handguns." #5 says "no loaded firearms carried in holsters, pockets, belts or purses." (Uniformed LEOs excepted).

The Devil's Advocate here reads #1 as being more comprehensive than is #5. That is, if an unloaded firearm is carried in a holster, pocket, belt or purse, as apparently permitted by #5, would not the carrier be in violation of #1?

Jim

[bpet]

I knew some cocky soul would find that offensive.
It wasn't meant to be.
And he can blow his "verbal directive" out his ear.
An officer cannot just order you do do anything he wants at his whim without due cause.

Actually, no offense taken. Just pointing out that most LEOs are smart enough to figure out some charge to make life miserable if they feel the need.

[Kerbouchard]

I don't know anybody who runs a gunshow or I would ask them, but here it goes.

People running gunshows in TX are very likely to know the law. Why don't they just post a legal sign and be done with it?(arguments about gov't property aside)

It just doesn't make since to go through the trouble of a "NO LOADED GUNS, NO exceptions for CHL's" sign...
And the way the sign in the picture was worded and colored, it could easily mean No loaded guns and that CHL's are excepted.

I just don't understand why they leave it up to interpretation...does anybody know for sure?

[Mike1951]

As I have stated before, I consider all 30.06 signs on government owned venues where shows are held to be unenforceable.

But I also believe that if we won this particular battle, we would lose the war.

The signs are there because their insurance requires them.

No signs -> no insurance -> no gun shows.

[kauboy]

I don't know anybody who runs a gunshow or I would ask them, but here it goes.

People running gunshows in TX are very likely to know the law. Why don't they just post a legal sign and be done with it?(arguments about gov't property aside)

It just doesn't make since to go through the trouble of a "NO LOADED GUNS, NO exceptions for CHL's" sign...
And the way the sign in the picture was worded and colored, it could easily mean No loaded guns and that CHL's are excepted.

I just don't understand why they leave it up to interpretation...does anybody know for sure?

You might not believe this, but in my conversing, through email, with the very folks who host the Fort Worth Gun Show, they don't fully understand the law as much as they would like.
They said, as mentioned here, that it is mainly for insurance purposes that they have any signs, and off-duty officers manning the front table.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Ok, just got back in from dinner after church with the folks.

i snagged the pic like I promised. Sadly, on Saturday I was suffering from something I like to call "selective reading disorder".
I missed the second "NO"



However, just as the preceding day, no 30.06 sign. I could have walked right in, but I was with a friend and didn't even want the remote possibility of causing any scene with him there(embarrassing), so I hoofed it on back to the truck and regretfully disarmed.

How do you know for sure that there isn't some compliant 30.06 sign somewhere that you also may have missed?

Now, with absolutely no 30.06 sign in sight, I think I have the board's complete and full endorsement that I would have been well within the law to walk right past the officers and into the venue packin heat. Right???

If there really is no 30.06 sign present, I think you would be legal, though IANAL. But be careful of selective reading disorder. Also, refer to various discussions here about the Katy Mills Mall.

Come May, when they return, I really hope the same scenario plays out and I can actually walk in armed. That will be exhilarating!

What's "exhilarating" about sneaking a gun into some place where the people in charge clearly do not want you to do so?

I carry a gun for protection (that I hope I will never need)- not to be exhilarated.

[frankie_the_yankee]

I don't know anybody who runs a gunshow or I would ask them, but here it goes.

People running gunshows in TX are very likely to know the law. Why don't they just post a legal sign and be done with it?(arguments about gov't property aside)

Good question. I wish I knew.

FWIW, some shows do post compliant 30.06 signs.

[57Coastie]

kauboy wrote:

"Now, with absolutely no 30.06 sign in sight, I think I have the board's complete and full endorsement that I would have been well within the law to walk right past the officers and into the venue packin heat. Right???"

Wrong, Cowboy. Wrong. Not as long as my presence is accepted on this forum.

Jim

[kauboy]

kauboy wrote:

"Now, with absolutely no 30.06 sign in sight, I think I have the board's complete and full endorsement that I would have been well within the law to walk right past the officers and into the venue packin heat. Right???"

Wrong, Cowboy. Wrong. Not as long as my presence is accepted on this forum.

Jim

I sure hope you're kidding.
If you honestly believe that this opinion will be accepted by CHL holders who have read and understand the law, I don't suspect you'll be around here too long.
If a public facility(not mentioned as off limits in the law) does not post a 30.06 compliant sign, a CHL carrier may carry into it. (unless otherwise given proper notice, of course)
If you don't support such action... why in the world are you here?

[kauboy]

How do you know for sure that there isn't some compliant 30.06 sign somewhere that you also may have missed?

If such a sign existed, and I missed it, then it wouldn't fit the "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." stipulation, would it? Thereby making it null and void.

What's "exhilarating" about sneaking a gun into some place where the people in charge clearly do not want you to do so?

I carry a gun for protection (that I hope I will never need)- not to be exhilarated.

Geez, semantics!
Perhaps a better choice of words (to untwist Fankie's girdle) would be "liberating".
I would feel liberated, as in, unbound by the tawdry confinements of unenforceable "No guns!" signs.

Is that better? Have I appeased you?

Believe me, I carry to protect myself, my wife, and my new little girl (OH YEAH, BTW, I HAD A BABY GIRL WHILE ON SABBATICAL FROM THE FORUM )
The idea that you would have me sacrifice my own, and their, security to bend to the wishes of a sign that in no way legally binds me from carrying my firearm, is appalling.
If bad people can enter a church and do bad things, a gun show is by no means whatsoever a "safe haven".

[57Coastie]

kauboy asks, "If you don't support such action... why in the world are you here?"

Since this thread has now become a matter of diatribe rather than either discussion or rational debate, and since this approach on the forum must be acceptable, giving deference to your more years experience here than mine, I must accept your questioning my presence as being quite valid, and it is then best that I adhere to the course of action you suggest.

I choose to neither have a discussion with or be thought to be an apparent colleague of a person who cheerily speaks of "being exhilarated to be packin' heat," and then goes on to give advice to persons, including the young and inexperienced, to forge ahead and do something law enforcement authorities obviously frown upon with good cause, and who will most likely be experienced enough to cause persons taking that poor advice to suffer grief. This is a matter of pragmatism, not law, although, on the other hand, the law is sometimes a strange and wondrous thing in the way it develops.

I value the privilege given by my CHL, and I am committed to the proposition that those who suggest even the appearance of the misuse of that privilege threaten the continued existence of the privilege. We have some good friends in the legislature, but they are not insulated from the electorate.

You ask why I am here. The answer to that is brief. I am here because the instructor at my last CHL renewal class, a well-respected regular on this forum and whom I consider to be a personal friend, requested me to join the forum, suspecting that I might be tempted to contribute something meaningful from time to time. If you want to know just why he made that request of me I will be happy to tell you privately if you wish to send me a PM requesting that I do so. My background is no secret, but I see no value in cluttering up this forum with a resume' which would be bound to be misunderstood.

With respect,

Jim

[kauboy]

Well, that was anything but brief.
Descriptive, informative, and full of proper grammatical splendor, but brief it was not.

Anyway, I have neither said, done, nor recommended doing anything illegal.
The simple fact that a law enforcement officer may not like it is no reason for me to not do it.
I follow the law just as he does.
There are officers who, to this day, oppose the carrying of firearms by the citizenry.
Their personal opinion is of little consequence to me if I am doing nothing wrong.

Do you wish to tell me that you would not do something that was entirely legal simply because an authority figure made it known they didn't like it?

P.S. Welcome to the board! And if you don't mind, a PM with the information you mentioned would be peachy.
I always like learning more about the community.

[kauboy]

BUMMER!

Well guys, I have to offer my apologies.
I have single handedly caused a 30.06 sign to be posted at the next Fort Worth Gun Show.
I've been conversing with the guy who sponsors it and have been explaining 30.06 to him.
He never fully understood it before. He's a great guy.
Sadly, after our email conversing, he has chosen to have a compliant 30.06 sign made for the event.
Now that I know him personally, I won't be testing the "government property" section.
Just as I don't carry in others homes whom I know wouldn't appreciate it.
Personal choice, call me a hypocrite if you wish.

I don't know what to say... I'm so ashamed.
I'VE FORSAKEN MY CHL BRETHREN!!!

Oh well, he did offer me free admission for my help.
Sorry guys.

And since most people here didn't like to carry loaded there anyways, I guess it wasn't that big of a deal.
It's sure gonna feel weird carrying an unloaded, unconcealed gun around in public...

Ok, that's all. I prostrate myself before you and await your much deserved wrath. PM's only please. This thread need not wander any farther from topic.