The Good News (New Gun) The Bad News (Blown UP Kimber)

[seadawg221]

What really stinks is that this WAS my favorite gun!

Glad you were not injured...Hav a friend off mine who had an M1 Garand literally explode in his face and did some damage to his right hand and upper arm a while back...

Pictures are here: http://www.tomeaker.com/Pages/Range.htm

Additionally I hope this incident is not the main reason your putting your reloading equipment up for sale...

Its discouraging...But I'd hate to see you give up that aspect of shooting because of this...

MAN! I hate to hear that about you friend! Glad it was not more serious!

As El Gato can attest, I never knew the danged gun blew up! It failed to fire so I figured I had a jam (real unusal for this gun), I removed the magazine and was still unable to rack the slide so I turned it upside down and seen the busted frame. Both Tom and I thought that the frame hade merely cracked. I put that gun down and started firing the new one I had bought earlier that day. After getting home I looked into the barrell with a flashlight and seen that the barrell had at least three cracks in it. As I said before I never heard or felt anything out of the ordinary.

Allthough I would love to be able to say that it was the guns fault I honeslty believe that I made a mistake while reloading! There was a young man at the range that was admiring my Kimbers so I asked if he would like to try them out and he did. I would have felt horrible had this gun exploded to a worse degree and that young man have been injured due to a fault of my own.The reason I am considering selling the reloading equipment is exactly because of this. I seriously do have ADD (Attention Defeicit Disorder) and it's really hard for me to concentrate on doing things that require a great deal of attention and I am begining to think that maybe reloading is something that I should not do...either give it up or start taking my Ritalin again

[dws1117]

Whether or not it was a squib load, and I agree with TomC, don't let it discourage you. Get right back up on the proverbial horse. I've had a squib load. I was fortunate that nothing except my pride was damaged. I'd be willing to bet that most that reload have made some sort of error at some point. First and foremost you were not hurt. Guns can be replaced.

You have only been reloading for a short time. Don't let one mishap take away something you enjoy.

FWIW I don't beleive it was a squib going from the way that you describe the events. I've never known of a squib with enough to cycle the slide.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Seadawg221:

As others have posted, the first suspect for this type of damage is a squib load. Most squibs are primer-only rounds, not a reduced powder charge or contaminated powder. As some have mentioned however, a squib load caused by reduced powder/contaminated powder charge rarely has sufficient energy to fully cycle the slide and still leave a bullet in the barrel. A primer-only round absolutely will not cycle the slide with a .45 ACP. I have seen .45's fire a live round after a squib and the only result was a ringed barrel (ruined) with no damage to the pistol. I have also seen revolvers blown up, but those were high pressure calibers. I’m not saying you can’t blow up a .45 ACP 1911, but I just haven’t seen it caused by a squib. Now, put a .38 Super loaded for IPSC major behind a squib in an unramped barrel (maybe even with a ramped barrel) and touch it off and you’ll quickly become a member of the “super face� club, the grips will be blown off, the magazine will be blown out of the frame and your hand will be evidence of your mistakes! But .45 ACP doesn’t develop anywhere near the chamber pressures of hot .38 Supers.

I tend to think it was an over charge and most of those are double charges, unless you have a poorly functioning powder measure that "wonders." Most double charges are very noticeable, but depending on the intended charge, may or may not damage the pistol. For example, if you are using a slower burning powder and a light powder charge, then you may well be able to double the charge with no damage, but you'd sure notice the difference. However, if you are using a fast burning powder at a maximum charge, then a double charge will most likely damage the pistol, again with you being very aware! For this reason among others, I like loads in which the powder takes up well over half of the case. With such loads, a double charge will result in powder overflowing the case making the mistake obvious.

The only thing that argues against an over charge is the fact that you didn't feel anything unusual, but that also argues against a squib. What bullets were you using? Was the barrel leaded up close to the chamber? Could a copper jacket have separated and been left in the barrel at a point not visible in the photos? These are just things to consider at this point. Sorry about the gun.

Since you live in the area, I'd take it to Ed Vanden Berg and have him look at it. He can probably offer an opinion as to the cause. If he thinks it was a bad reload, then it was an expensive lesson. If he thinks the gun failed in some way, then you may have a good chance of Kimber replacing the gun.

As to not continuing to reload, my first reaction was to suggest you keep at it, but if you are AADD, then perhaps it isn't a good idea. Only you can determine if your condition will allow you to proceed safely.

Regards,
Chas.

[seadawg221]

Thanks for you comments Charles, I really do appreciate everyone's insight and opinions.

I can see no traces of lead or a jacket in the barrel.

The powder I use is Bullseye and from what I have read it is either the fastest or second fastest burning powder available (can't remember which one).

I load 5.0 grns of Bullseye powder with a 230 grn Barry's Plated Bullet and Winchester Primers. This 5.0 powder charge normally fills the case up about half.

The other night while I was loading a batch I picked up a bullet, placed it in the casing and it immediately fell into the casing, aparently this bullet of another caliber had gotten mixed in (from the factory) with my bullets. I removed this bullet and I am assuming this is how I got out of sync. As a matter of fact I somewhat felt that I had made a mistake and the next mistake I had was that I did not stop and recheck everything.

I'm glad you mentioned Vanden Burg Charles, I was going to ask who you used and take it to him for his opinion. I spoke with Kimber a few minutes ago and they asked me to send it to them and they would see what they could do for me, they did indicate that it was most likely ammo related.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I spoke with Kimber a few minutes ago and they asked me to send it to them and they would see what they could do for me, they did indicate that it was most likely ammo related.

I would have bet on that response and my crystal ball has been on the blink lately. I'd take it to Vanden Berg first and if he thinks it was the gun, see if he'd call Kimber or write a letter for you. They'll still want to see the gun obviously, but it would help for them to know a member of the American Pistolsmith Guild says they have a problem.

I'm not optimistic, as I think it was ammo related as well, but I'd sure have Ed check it out.

Regards,
Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I load 5.0 grns of Bullseye powder with a 230 grn Barry's Plated Bullet and Winchester Primers. This 5.0 powder charge normally fills the case up about half.

That's either max. for a 230 gr. FMJ .45 ACP, or very close to it. Copper plated bullets “act� more like cast loads than true jacketed bullets and 5.0 sounds a little on the high side for a 230 gr. cast bullet. Either way, a double charge should have resulted in powder overflowing the case, but a 50% over charge may not. However, you should have felt the powder crushing in a compressed powder charge. Hmmmm . . .

Do you periodically recheck the powder charge during reloading? If so, does your powder measure hold to within 1/10 grain, or does it wonder? If so, how much? When reloading at the max. book load, you can’t afford to have a measure wander.

The other night while I was loading a batch I picked up a bullet, placed it in the casing and it immediately fell into the casing, aparently this bullet of another caliber had gotten mixed in (from the factory) with my bullets. I removed this bullet and I am assuming this is how I got out of sync. As a matter of fact I somewhat felt that I had made a mistake and the next mistake I had was that I did not stop and recheck everything.

The Square Deal B is auto-indexing, so you should not have been able to double stroke (thus double charge) a case, without going to the trouble of removing each case and setting them back on the shell plate. Did you do that?

I don't mean to be giving you the third degree, but this one has me stumped. I know you'd like to know how this happened and maybe we can help others new to reloading keep from making the same mistake.

Regards,
Chas.

[seadawg221]

Well, today we got the slide off...here are a couple of pictures...

[flintknapper]

Of course, the worst possible combination would be: to have "squibbed" and then run a double charge behind it. That would require extremely bad luck, or... you would have had to of loaded the magazine in the exact order you placed the reloads in a box (if you put them in a box).

I've witnessed two occasions where a person ran a "good one" behind a squib, both times it was during an IDPA match (fast & furious), and both times the shooter racked the slide (as to clear a dud). Neither person noticed the difference in the report (everything happening too fast). In one instance... the S/O noticed, and tried to alert the shooter, but it was too late. Neither case resulted in any detectable damage to the gun.

I wouldn't sell the reloading equipment. Have a trusted friend help you do your reloading if you have any concerns about being able to do so accurately. I am 100% certain you can work this out.

Sorry about the gun (regardless of the cause), and I'm glad you sustained no injuries. Chin up!

Flint.

[ElGato]

Two things I want to add to the puzzle,the first thing he said when he brought it over to show me was that he hadn't felt anything unusual, and even in the photo's with the slide off I don't see any bulges, a barrel will normaly bulge before it splits.

Tomcat

[Charles L. Cotton]

Seadawg:
Even if Kimber won't cover this under warranty, all may not be lost. If the slide has not been damaged, then you can either have Kimber put a new receiver under it and fit a new barrel. Or, you could have someone like Vanden Berg fit the slide to a Caspian receiver and fit a match barrel. (That would be my choice.)

Good luck,
Chas.

[seadawg221]

Seadawg:
Even if Kimber won't cover this under warranty, all may not be lost. If the slide has not been damaged, then you can either have Kimber put a new receiver under it and fit a new barrel. Or, you could have someone like Vanden Berg fit the slide to a Caspian receiver and fit a match barrel. (That would be my choice.)

Good luch,
Chas.

Yeah, i got a little excited once the slide was removed and seen that there was not much more damage but I still cant get the barrel removed from the slide.

[seadawg221]

I took the advice of our beloved forum leader Charles and took the gun over to Ed VandenBurg yesterday, within 5 minutes Ed had the barrel removed from the slide and we were able to see what actually happened...It was a squib.

Ed said that if I purchased a new receiver (about $150) he could reuse almost every other part (except the barrel, bushing and slide stop) and put it all back together for me for about $250. So I would then have a functioning pistol once again for about $400. I may very well sell thies good parts and just buy another new Kimber....What do ya'll think???

[HighVelocity]

Heartbreaking

[seadawg221]

My sentiments exactly!

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's your call on the gun, but if you sell the parts, be sure to disclose that they are from a gun that suffered a squib failure. You don't want someone complaining about it after the fact.

I've had Vanden Berg build or modify guns for me for many years (he's older than he looks!) and I know what I'd do. However, you have to be happy with the end product and if you'd rather have a Kimber than a hybrid, then go with a new gun. If you are going to consider market value, the Kimber probably would have a higher resale value, unless you have Ed build a true custom gun with a match barrel. That, of course, is more money!

One thing I would do for sure is mount that blown barrel in some fashion and put it on your reloading bench as a reminder to be very careful! I have an old J.C. Higgins (Sears) 12 ga. that I blew up when a 20 ga. round found its way into the barrel and lodged just forward of the chamber, followed by a 12 ga. I was 16 and that was a very exciting day. It's a great tool for firearms safety classes.

Regards,
Chas.