Flying with handguns

[Houston1944]

I have flown before with handguns so I do know the drill. It has been a couple of years since my last flight with firearms so I thought I would refresh my memory by visiting NW airlines web site. I found an interesting statement, quoting from their web site:
"To avoid the breaking of passenger's gun case locks, NWA recommends the use of TSA approved locks. TSA approved locks (Search alert) come with a tool that enables TSA screeners to open the lock without damaging it."
I called a couple of gun stores in the Houston area and no one had ever heard of this lock. Does anyone have any experience with this lock or know of a local Houston source?

[DMG]

Houston:

Those locks are all over the place. Don't look at gun stores for the locks, look at Targets, Wal-Mart, Loew's, Home Depot, etc. What does not make sense, however, is that no one is allowed to go into the gun case after you sign the form, put it into the gun case, and lock it.

The lock you are talking about is placed on the outside of the suitcase, to lock the suitcase. There is no special tool attached to the lock, but there is a separate key hole and TSA has special keys just for those locks. Again, those should not be used on the gun case, but on the suitcase.

David G.

[Houston1944]

DMG - I agree with your statements. That's how it was when I last flew with firearms. It caught me off guard that NWA actually stated that TSA would probably open the case.
Unless someone has some recent experience different from my last trip I am going to just do what I have done in the past - put my own standard lock on it and I will have the keys in my pocket for inspection during checkin. All my previous experiences with this have been very simple with the firearms not being a big deal.

[CompVest]

Houston194,

Luggage stores have a great selection of styles. They come with key or combo locks.

[NcongruNt]

I've seen the TSA locks at academy as well.

[anygunanywhere]

The hard case that will contain your firearm inside your luggage must have the locks that only you have the key or combination to access. I use a Pelican case and two locks. The locks are Pelican as well.

The luggage is locked with the TSA locks. They are just standard luggage locks with the TSA access feature. They are still pretty flimsy. Several times my luggage has shown up at the carousel with no lock with my handguns inside. The locks do wear out. The conveyors that the big airports use can tear the locks off easily. I found one of my locks almost cut apart from the conveyor once. I purchase new locks regularly. Any luggage place, Wally World, etc sells them.

Happy flying with your precious.

Anygun

[j1132s]

I just went through this a few times a couple months ago, and things work like your past experience.

One thing that I found out is that at least for American Airlines there's a limit on the number of guns you can have per gun case. You may want to check this to prevent you from begin forced to leave behind guns on your return trip.

I think the limit is 2 rifles or 4 pistols per case. I don't know what happens if you mix them in the same case. Since I was moving, I've been putting 4 barreled actions and 1 shotgun per long case and storing rifle stocks separately in normal checkin bags . So I was moving 5 "guns" per case. Although the screeners didn't pick this up, a sharp screener could have made my travel very difficult be not letting me check in the gun cases. I only later found this out, but after I'm done w/ travelling.

[Houston1944]

I am flying Northwest Airlines and they have a 4 handgun limit and I think it was 2 rifles. I am only carrying 2 handguns (44mag and 454 casull) so the limit does not affect me. They also have a 11 pound ammo limit but that is not an issue since I am only carrying enough for hunting, no plinking on this trip.

Thanks for the replies.

[Velocity]

DMG - I agree with your statements. That's how it was when I last flew with firearms. It caught me off guard that NWA actually stated that TSA would probably open the case.

Pay some attention to what the airline says, but pay more attention to what the TSA says since they're the ones actually doing the screening.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1666.shtm

[jimlongley]

First of all, NW is wrong, TSA rules state that the gun "container" must be secured with a lock which only the owner has the key or combination for, and that includes out TSA locks. I use "container" because a hard sided suitcase with the gun loose inside qualifies ( not as if anyone with any sense would actually do that, but I have seen it).

Second, although the airlines do set some rules as to weight limits for ammo, and numbers of guns, TSA is not obligated to enforce airline rules. When Southwest was pushing their eleven pound ammo weight limit during Dove season a few years back some screeners felt as though they should, at least as a "courtesy" report amouunts of ammo beyond SWA's limit to SWA. Others of us disabused them of this myth and now unless you actually tell SWA how much ammo you have, or they weigh it for themselves, it will most likely travel.

[AggieMM]

I found a recent comment by Suarez to be very interesting. In his most recent email'd newsletter, he advocates TSA locks on the gun case. WHAT?!?!?! I agree with Jim, I thought only you were to have the combo/key to the gun case?

Ryan

FLYING WITH A GUN - GABRIEL SUAREZ

I get many calls about students who want to come to class but are afraid of flying with their guns. Listen guys, take advantage of every training opportunity as we don't know what is coming up for this nation in the next couple of years. I can see Hillary the Witch or Obama Bin Ladin trying to regulate everything...including "Military Style Assault Training".

So here is what you do. Get a nice lockable Pelican type case and get a couple of TSA locks. Get another set for you actual luggage. I know, I know...TSA could theoretically steal your gun. It has never happened to me since TSA has been in business.

When you check in, do not act nervous and practice what you will say. Act like you do this weekly and like you own the place. Tell the lady you have "AN UNLOADED FIREARM TO DECLARE". She will probably give you a slip and not ask again about it, or she will ask to see it. (least likely of all).

When she asks if you have any ammo, she means "IN THE BAG WITH THE GUN". Put it in a nice safe place in the factory box. You should not be flying with anything more than your street meat ammo anyway. Ammoman.com and other companies will ship your ammo ahead for you, or make arangements to get it on scene when you arrive..

Again, TSA locks all around to avoid delays. When you walk the bag over to TSA, tell the TSA guy that you have "AN ULOADED AND DECLARED FIREARM" in it. It will go to the front of the line and when its cleared you will be on your way. They may want to look inside. They open my bags about 1/3 of the time.

Simple.

A keynote - don't try to be the super-helpful nice guy and volunteer all kinds of information, or ask too many questions. If you ask any querstions of a government employee the answer will always be "NO". Keep that in mind.. Keep your trap shut, answer the questions you are asked...exactly those questions - as they are asked - and nothing else.

Save the gun tag for the return flight and simply ask the attendant on the retrun flight that you "NEED ANOTHER TAG" for the bag in question to minimize explanations. Act like you know what you are doing and have done it 10,000 times and it will go very easy.

Have a nice trip...see you in class.

[ELB]

Here's what TSA currently says about traveling with firearms. I just went to Florida and back (to San Antonio) and it was pretty much the same as the other times I flew. I had the only key to my gun case, and I zip-tied my luggage shut. I waited at the TSA screening stations until the inspectors gave me the thumbs up.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... ems.shtm#5

Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in. Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply. Read our Firearms & Ammunition section.

Firearms - firearms carried as checked baggage MUST be unloaded, packed in a locked hard-sided container, and declared to the airline at check-in. Read our Firearms & Ammunition section.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1666.shtm

Traveling with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition

You may only transport firearms, ammunition and firearm parts in your checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR § 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.

The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.

• The firearm must be unloaded.
  The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
  The container must be locked.
  We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
  You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
  You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
  You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
  You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.

Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

Also, please note that many other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check with the authorities at your destination about their requirements.

I searched the TSA website for "lock." I read most, not all, of the search hits, and basically only found recommendations to use TSA-approved locks. No mention of the old verbiage about "key or combo known only to the traveler" for gun cases. I did not find any explicit statement that the gun case should be locked with a TSA-approved lock, just general recommendations to use TSA-approved locks.

(Off-topic, but I also found of a picture of 244 locks ripped off of baggage by a conveyer belt in NY in ONE month. None of the locks appeared to be broken open, so I guess the zippers took a hit. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... locks.shtm)

I searchd on "firearm" and "gun" and found nothing more informative than what I quoted above.

So now I know less than I knew before. Gotta go get a pizza, but I may email TSA specifically about the locked gun case and who can have the key/combo...

elb

[endigo]

I have flown (Southwest) recently.

I used my own keyed Brinks Locks. I claim and show the empty gun at the ticket counter, put the locks on, and stand by TSA while the bag is scanned. After it is scanned TSA waves me on.

I have flown twice this way recently.