What to expect in Harris County for Car-Carry without CHL

[Paladin]

In the future I may be able to give more details, but for now all I can say is that I've got some inside info on how Car-Carry of a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL) is being currently being handled in Harris County.

If you are stopped by police for any reason, they may ask you if you have a gun. If you've got a CHL, you know what to do. If you don't have a CHL, don't lie, but don't say you've got one. And also, don't consent to a search. It may keep you out of further trouble.

If they find a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL), they will arrest you.

Bond for Unlawful Carry of a Weapon starts at $1,000 in Harris County. Bond is more with any kind of criminal history.

Bail Bondsmen will charge 12% plus fees (Over $200 between bond and fees)

Even if you are legal under the current traveling law, you will be charged with Unlawful Carry of a Weapon. A Class A Misdeamenor punishable by a fine not to exceed $4,000 and/or confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year.

The Prosecutor may plead ignorance as to knowing about any change in the traveling law.

Even if you are completely legal under the new law and have done nothing else, expect the Prosecutor to ask for a guilty plea with time served and to give up your gun forever.

Most people would be rather intimidated by this time.

At this point you need a lawyer or you're going to have a serious conviction on your record. Plan on making lots of trips to the court house as well.

A criminal defense lawyer will probably want several thousand dollars up front for your defense.

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I certainly don't agree with any of this, but it's what's going on right now.

The Harris County DA has said "Last year, this office handled about 5,000 weapons cases. I do not expect a decrease in that number because of this change in the law."

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mp ... al/3330477

So it would seem that Rosenthal is content to prosecute hundreds-or even-thousands of people per year who are legal under the Texas traveling law.

[HighVelocity]

How can we get Rosenthal out of there? Does he have to be fired by the mayor or what? Going against state law just because he feels like it should not be acceptable.

[tomneal]

Rosenthal is elected as the Harris County District Attorney.
He can be voted out of office
There is probably some way he can be impeached.

And
we can always hope that he leaves office for his own personal reasons.

He does not report to the mayor of Houston.

[txinvestigator]

If they find a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL), they will arrest you.

Who are they? Houston City Police, Harris County Sherrif, Harris Constables?

Where did you get this information that "they" WILL arrest you?

[Paladin]

If they find a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL), they will arrest you.

Who are they? Houston City Police, Harris County Sherrif, Harris Constables?

Where did you get this information that "they" WILL arrest you?

Rosenthal said as much publically. I would suppose all police in Harris county that take direction from the Harris County DA. More than just HPD. I have personal knowledge that its true.

[tomneal]

Where does anyone get this information.

Rosenthal has written articles for the paper and done many interviews on local radio stations.
Heck he even responded to an email from me.

All that happened in August and September.

Later in the fall charges were pressed against someone that was leaving Harris County to spend the weekend with relatives in East Texas. But, oops, they had a car wreck before they could get out of the county.

[KinnyLee]

This kinda sucks, but wouldn't this encourage more people to actually apply for their CHL?

[Paladin]

This kinda sucks, but wouldn't this encourage more people to actually apply for their CHL?

The CHL does look pretty cheap by comparison. Or maybe people will just carry long-guns instead of handguns.

[KinnyLee]

It's not only cheaper, but I don't see the reason on risking your own clean record because some doo doo head of a DA decided to play dumb.

[tomneal]

While guns are the focus of this news group, it seems like there is nothing to prevent a DA from getting out of control.

Except for maybe loosing an election at some point in the future.

Why does the name Ronnie Earl come to mind? He has made the national news recently because of the Tom Delay charges but he doesn't like CHL holders either. He proscuted one in Austin a couple of years ago named Strup (I am sure that's misspelled.)

It seems like there should be something to balance them out. Being forced to hire a lawyer is a greater punishment than some of these "crimes" deserve.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I believe Rosenthal is up for re-election in 2008. Unless someone runs against him and wins in the Republican Primary, he will be re-elected.

As to which agencies will make the arrests, the only information I have is that the Houston Police Dept. has publically stated that its officers will arrest anyone carrying a handgun without a CHL, based upon Rosenthal's interpretation of the new law. I'm sure other agencies will follow suit, but only time will tell.

Rosenthal could have avoided this problem by simply stating that his office would not accept charges against anyone that appeared to meet the five elements of HB823. He chose not to and his claim that he's merely trying to keep good people from being arrested is damage control, pure and simple. Remember, he fought like a tiger to kill this bill, then when he was ignored, he lobbied the Governor to veto it and was again ignored. If it really didn't change anything, why did he put up such a fight? Could his current campaign against "car carry" be sour grapes, or perhaps wounded pride?

In fairness to Rosenthal, he is correct when he states that we are dealing with a presumption and presumptions are to be proven in court. However, defenses are also to be proven in court and having a CHL or being a peace officer are also defenses to a UCW charge. (There is case law that holds the "Nonapplicability" provisions of TPC 46.15 are "defenses" rather than "exceptions.") Thus, a CHL or a peace officer can be arrested for UCW and brought to trial where they would have to prove their "defense." No LEO in their right mind would make an arrest under those circumstances, no ADA would accept charges and any judge would throw out the charges if the first two did! So while he is technically correct, Rosenthal’s argument is disingenuous. The problem is easily avoided, refuse charges unless the officer observes that one of the five elements is not met. God do I miss Johnny Holmes' intellectual honesty and leadership!

Some good may come out of this yet. I suspect many in the Legislature are going to be very upset and insulted that Rosenthal and some other DA’s around the State are thumbing their collective noses at the Legislative intent behind HB823. It’s much like the City of Mission taking the position that they don’t care what SB501 said, they’re going to post 30.06 signs on city property and to heck with the law! Meanwhile, we need to help Keel get elected to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, we need to support a bill I anticipate will be filed in 2007 , and we need to make sure people don’t forget about Rosenthal by 2008.

And by all means, if you qualify for a CHL, then get one!!

Paladin, I know you baited me into this - and it worked! I bet Steve put you up to it.

Regards,
Chas.

[HighVelocity]

How about this:


"Cotton in 2008!"

[tomneal]

well sort of

first he would have to move to Harris county
second he would have to convence his lovely bride that the pay cut would be worth it.

I am not sure that either could ever happen.

Oh well
I'll go back to my original plan of supporting anyone but chuck.

[txinvestigator]

If they find a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL), they will arrest you.

Who are they? Houston City Police, Harris County Sherrif, Harris Constables?

Where did you get this information that "they" WILL arrest you?

Rosenthal said as much publically. I would suppose all police in Harris county that take direction from the Harris County DA. More than just HPD. I have personal knowledge that its true.

NO LE agency talkes direction from any DA. It does not work that way. LEO's get their directives from the agency where they work.

I hate to do it, but I am calling bull on your assertation that any LE agency in Harris County is under direction of Rosenthal. I all call bull that "If they find a handgun(on or about your person without a CHL), they will arrest you.".

If he gets a UCW case, I believe he will prosecute.

What is this "personal knowledge"?

[txinvestigator]

Where does anyone get this information.

Rosenthal has written articles for the paper and done many interviews on local radio stations.
Heck he even responded to an email from me.

All that happened in August and September.

Later in the fall charges were pressed against someone that was leaving Harris County to spend the weekend with relatives in East Texas. But, oops, they had a car wreck before they could get out of the county.

And you have ZERO information regarding the facts of that arrest. If I am wrong, I would love to see a link or reference.