The prodigal returns home!

[rentz]

I've been debating a 45 for carry but most of them tend to be too bulky for my liking
My Hk45c would likely be my top choice for 45 carry out of what I have now due to its weight savings over 1911
But the new shield 45 has me thinking things over again because I shoot my shield 9 better than any other carry gun I own

[G26ster]

Handguns for the military are backup weapons, but us they are not only primary weapons, but likely the only weapons we will have if attacked.

Chas.

Then times have changed in the military Charles. In my infantry days, as mechanized infantry mortar squad leader my only issued weapon, and the only one I had if attacked, was a 1911.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

When I said "Duck" I meant move. You don't want to stand still unless you're wearing armor.

Let's just chalk it up to a miscommunication on both of our parts. My statement in the original post was, Don't duck, run and spray hoping not only to get one or two rounds out of 15 not only on target, but in a location that will stop the threat from shooting at you." This is a response seen far too often in shootings. I will say that, while I agree with the "get off the X" approach, I do so only while drawing my gun, unless I have reachable cover/concealment in which case I will move quickly to cover. Trying to deliver accurate fire while moving is a myth. If cover/concealment is available, get to it, then fire. Shooting on the move is nothing more than suppressive fire which is fine on a battle field, but not in civilian settings. That's a factor in many LEO misses.

The two IDPA rules that bother me the most are 1) a limited number of non-threat targets in a scenario; and 2) allowing or requiring shooting on the move. Most shooters are moving so slow one can barely discern movement. They do this because moving quickly to cover will result in almost 100% misses.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Handguns for the military are backup weapons, but us they are not only primary weapons, but likely the only weapons we will have if attacked.

Chas.

Then times have changed in the military Charles. In my infantry days, as mechanized infantry mortar squad leader my only issued weapon, and the only one I had if attacked, was a 1911.

Really? You don't understand what I was getting at?

Chas.

[G26ster]

Handguns for the military are backup weapons, but us they are not only primary weapons, but likely the only weapons we will have if attacked.

Chas.

Then times have changed in the military Charles. In my infantry days, as mechanized infantry mortar squad leader my only issued weapon, and the only one I had if attacked, was a 1911.

Really? You don't understand what I was getting at?

Chas.

I guess not Charles.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's obvious that my post, about my decision made for my safety, has been received poorly by some folks who carry a 9mm. As I said in the last sentence in the first post, "I'm not trying to start a never-ending "light and fast v. big and slow" argument that no one can win. I'm just giving the basis for my decision to return to a .45ACP as an EDC handgun. I'm also not trying to get anyone else to follow in my shoes. I'm doing what's best for me, not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach. " Carry what you want to carry and I'll do likewise.

Chas.

[Dragonfighter]

Charles, thanks for posting this; it gives one food for thought. I split the difference and went with the S&W .40.

I was struggling with the same questions, weight, capacity vs. terminal energy delivery. I was looking at ballistic test videos, reading the numbers when a 400# Samoan was dropped with a single shot to center mass in Dallas. The first Texas CHL defense shooting.

That's when I felt like the farmer in "Babe", "that'll do pig, that'll do."

[G26ster]

It's obvious that my post, about my decision made for my safety, has been received poorly by some folks who carry a 9mm. As I said in the last sentence in the first post, "I'm not trying to start a never-ending "light and fast v. big and slow" argument that no one can win. I'm just giving the basis for my decision to return to a .45ACP as an EDC handgun. I'm also not trying to get anyone else to follow in my shoes. I'm doing what's best for me, not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach. " Carry what you want to carry and I'll do likewise.

Chas.

Charles: I was not at all challenging or questioning any caliber, not do I care for caliber wars. I firmly believe one should carry whatever they're happy with. That said, I only posted that the Marine raiders were going the other way from .45 to 9mm, as a friend sent me that link today, and I thought it would be of interest here.

My second post was to point out that "in my day," handguns were not back up weapons, but rather the primary and only weapon issued to some infantry troops, and their only defense weapon, not a backup. They were not issued a rifle. Nothing more. Times may have changed that. BTW, I don't carry a 9mm, but rather a puny .380.

[The Annoyed Man]

I will say this..... there have been a few times when shooting at falling steel plates that one of my 9mm bullets has hit the plate square on, dead center, and failed to knock it over; but a hit from a .45 puts the plate down with authority. I have ended up trying to place my 9mm shots on the plate so as to maximize the amount of leverage the impact has against the hinge. You never have to do that with a .45. I am fairly certain that a couple of 230 grain HST JHPs at a muzzle velocity/energy of 890 fps/404 ft-lb will hit someone harder than a couple of 135 grain Critical Duty JHPs at 1010 fps/306 ft-lb.

I don't know what you're using for range ammo, but you might consider Winchester WB NATO. It packs a little more punch than typical range ammo. I use it because it has similar recoil characteristics to my defensive loads. and it cost maybe a buck more than the standard WWB stuff

Thanks for the tip!

[Soap]

You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

When I said "Duck" I meant move. You don't want to stand still unless you're wearing armor.

Let's just chalk it up to a miscommunication on both of our parts. My statement in the original post was, Don't duck, run and spray hoping not only to get one or two rounds out of 15 not only on target, but in a location that will stop the threat from shooting at you." This is a response seen far too often in shootings. I will say that, while I agree with the "get off the X" approach, I do so only while drawing my gun, unless I have reachable cover/concealment in which case I will move quickly to cover. Trying to deliver accurate fire while moving is a myth. If cover/concealment is available, get to it, then fire. Shooting on the move is nothing more than suppressive fire which is fine on a battle field, but not in civilian settings. That's a factor in many LEO misses.

The two IDPA rules that bother me the most are 1) a limited number of non-threat targets in a scenario; and 2) allowing or requiring shooting on the move. Most shooters are moving so slow one can barely discern movement. They do this because moving quickly to cover will result in almost 100% misses.

Chas.

I agree. It's all circumstantial, but I will try to avoid being a still target. Which is why I have a larger capacity and I believe I will be better off than whoever is shooting at me. Most civilians won't run into a scenario like this. Theres stories that will go either way. You cant dodge a bullet but you can make sure you land first. Usually whoever lands first wins.

[rentz]

I will say this..... there have been a few times when shooting at falling steel plates that one of my 9mm bullets has hit the plate square on, dead center, and failed to knock it over; but a hit from a .45 puts the plate down with authority. I have ended up trying to place my 9mm shots on the plate so as to maximize the amount of leverage the impact has against the hinge. You never have to do that with a .45. I am fairly certain that a couple of 230 grain HST JHPs at a muzzle velocity/energy of 890 fps/404 ft-lb will hit someone harder than a couple of 135 grain Critical Duty JHPs at 1010 fps/306 ft-lb.

I don't know what you're using for range ammo, but you might consider Winchester WB NATO. It packs a little more punch than typical range ammo. I use it because it has similar recoil characteristics to my defensive loads. and it cost maybe a buck more than the standard WWB stuff

Thanks for the tip!

I find the wwb NATO to be more accurate as well since it's a little heavier hotter load
Costs a little more, I know ill be buying a case next time it's on sale

[carlson1]

I've been debating a 45 for carry but most of them tend to be too bulky for my liking
My Hk45c would likely be my top choice for 45 carry out of what I have now due to its weight savings over 1911
But the new shield 45 has me thinking things over again because I shoot my shield 9 better than any other carry gun I own

I went back to a Commander months ago, but I recently got the Shield .45. I have not changed anything on it, field stripped it, added a little gun butter to it, and began shooting. It is a great shooter and it is not much bigger in size than the Shield 9mm.

[Keith B]

I carry a 9mm most of the time just because it's my lightest and easiest gun to carry in my pocket where I am comfortable with the abilities of the caliber and rounds I use. However, when it's feasible and I can, I will carry a .45.

I am a big believer in energy transfer to the target. The heavier .45 slug vs. a lighter 9mm will produce more kinetic energy, given a similar velocity. Also, the extra .07" of diameter gives you a larger wound channel and a slight advantage of hitting a vital organ, vein or artery when it spreads out. Those combined give you a better chance of stopping the threat sooner than later.

Personally, if i could figure out how to carry a handgun with 12ga slugs in it, that would be my preferred round to stop someone with due to the mass and diameter of the slug. When you are in a gunfight, cutting off fractions of seconds on ending the fight means the possibility of you living versus dying.

[Roger Howard]

Personally, if i could figure out how to carry a handgun with 12ga slugs in it, that would be my preferred round to stop someone with due to the mass and diameter of the slug. When you are in a gunfight, cutting off fractions of seconds on ending the fight means the possibility of you living versus dying.

If the judge in .410 wasn't so big, I would carry one of those.

[C-dub]

I switched from .40 to .45 years ago after shooting TAM's 1911 one day at BassPro. I was surprised at the recoil and happy to get away from the .40.

I carried a G30SF for a few years after making the switch, while keeping the G21SF on the nightstand. Then after a couple night matches experienced how much better I shoot in the dark with a weapon mounted light versus a handheld flashlight. Then began the search for a holster and finding the new 7TS holsters from Safariland. They still don't make one for the G30 or 30SF with or without a light, but they do have one for the 21SF and TLR1, so I got one. Now, that is what I carry most of the time and two spare mags on the other side, but I've carried two spares ever since getting my CHL about 13 years ago,, so that means I've got 40 rounds of .45ACP with me ready to go.