What is your night stand gun?

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Jusme
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#46

Post by Jusme »

jason812 wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
jason812 wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:A 10.5" SBR in .300 Blackout, suppressed, with 208 grain A-MAX subsonics. It's about as loud as a hand clap, needs no earpro, is a 1/2" shorter than a carbine length AR with the suppressor mounted, hits about like a +P .45 ACP, and has 30 rounds on tap in the first magazine. Backup is a G17 with a TLR-1s light mounted.
I wonder how long until there is a comercially available load for this situation that will expand like a HP pistol round. Be hard to beat if it would have an expanding bullet.
http://shop.nosler.com/nosler-ammunitio ... count.html
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noveske300blk220sub.jpg
Unfortunately, it's out of stock at the moment. That's why I'm using 208 gr A-MAX subs.
I haven't seen testing on those yet. Figured it would only be a matter of time until something like that was offered.
With my OCD, and always wanting to find the best of the best, This is very intriguing. I haven't put enough 5.56/223 rounds downrange to even consider myself proficient in the AR platform and I'm already looking at 300 blackout, as a potential, "must have" way to play. I have read a lot of info regarding the 300,(meaning internet "experts") and the majority of the reviews give it poor ratings as a HD cartridge. Probably because of it's lack of expansion in soft tissue/gelatin. But the energy/foot lbs. is very impressive. I have already started looking at 300 uppers, but SWMBO has not really signed off on the program just yet. :biggrinjester:

Maybe another trip to purchase orange vegetable rated shiny objects will change her mind? :smilelol5:
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#47

Post by LeonCarr »

In nightstand - Glock 17 w/TLR-1 loaded with 124 +P Gold Dots

Next to nightstand - Benelli Nova 12 Gauge Pump with 10 round Nordic Components extended tube loaded with Winchester 16 Pellet #1 Buckshot.

At 7 yards it will put 160 .30 caliber pellets moving 1250 fps inside the C Zone on an IPSC target in under 7 seconds.

Just my .02,
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dragun
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#48

Post by dragun »

My trusty 226 Tacops.

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FastCarry
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#49

Post by FastCarry »

dragun wrote:My trusty 226 Tacops.
I think I've decided on a Sig emperor scorpion with 10 round mag and tlr1 hl.
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#50

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Jusme wrote:With my OCD, and always wanting to find the best of the best, This is very intriguing. I haven't put enough 5.56/223 rounds downrange to even consider myself proficient in the AR platform and I'm already looking at 300 blackout, as a potential, "must have" way to play. I have read a lot of info regarding the 300,(meaning internet "experts") and the majority of the reviews give it poor ratings as a HD cartridge. Probably because of it's lack of expansion in soft tissue/gelatin. But the energy/foot lbs. is very impressive. I have already started looking at 300 uppers, but SWMBO has not really signed off on the program just yet. :biggrinjester:

Maybe another trip to purchase orange vegetable rated shiny objects will change her mind? :smilelol5:
I'm a musician. MY big concern was discharging a firearm inside the confines of a house without proper ear protection, and what that might permanently do to my ears. I've already had some hearing loss from years of shooting and amplified guitars. My thought was that, if something went "bump" in the middle of the night:
  1. what time would be lost putting on ear pro?
  2. with ear pro on, would I be able to hear an intruder moving about my house?
  3. without ear pro, would I be able to hear anything my wife said after discharging said firearm?
Auditory exclusion would already be a symptom of the adrenaline dump, but just because your brain can't hear the noise as loudly, it doesn't mean that the decibels aren't still doing the same damage to the internal structures of your ear. I shot some suppressed subsonics out of my SBR on Sunday with ear pro removed in one of the tactical bays at ETTS. I would describe it as being quieter than a .22.....but still plenty loud enough. But it would fall within the range of acceptability for inside the house. Ballistically, the numbers are in line with a +P .45 ACP, but maybe a little flatter shooting (I experienced about a 10"-12" bullet drop at 100 yards on Sunday with these loads).....but again, within the confines of a house there is no bullet drop of any consequence. Bullet expansion? Well, yeah, that might be a problem. I don't know if velocities in the range of 1,000 fps are enough to cause a .308 rifle bullet to upset and yaw. The bullets are hollow points, but they are match bullets, not hunting bullets, so the hollow point probably won't perform like a hunting bullet. OTH, I can dump 30 rounds into a target (with almost zero recoil management issues) pretty darn quick if I have to, and at that point, bullet expansion becomes academic.

I have LOTS of guns that are suitable for home defense, both in long guns and pistols, but protecting my hearing was my prime consideration. All other things aside, it would have certainly been cheaper to buy a threaded barrel and a suppressor for one of my .45s. But I was looking to build a versatile weapon - one that gave me a lot of options. By registering my lower for an SBR and using a .30 caliber can, I have an AR15 that I can run as a 16" 5.56 weapon, suppressed or unsuppressed, with either subsonic or supersonic ammo, and a 10.5" .300 Blackout weapon that I can run suppressed or unsuppressed, with subsonic or supersonic ammo. One gun, good for plinking, varmint shooting, hunting, hog eradication, self-defense, loud or quiet, with power ranging from a .22 LR (subsonic 5.56 77 grain OTM) to 7.62x39 (110-120 grain supersonic .300 Blackout). The T2 Micro optic is perfect for CQB application, and easier for my old eyes to see and aim with than a set of pistol night sights in a dark room.....particularly without time to put my glasses on.

So in the balance, bullet performance is not that big of an issue. A 30-round magazine full of .308 match bullets will perform just as well as a 15 round magazine of 9mm bullets.
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#51

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In the night stand is my Colt Defender. Next to the bed on my side is my shotgun. And easily accessible next to my bed in my briefcase (soft case) is my XD45.
In my wifes nightstand is her XD9sc and next to the bed on her side is my AR.
Then there is my 3 dogs they have to get through before getting to us
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#52

Post by WinoVeritas »

Smith SD40VE w/120 Lumen LED light. My EDC is there at night, too (740 Slim w/extended 8-rd. magazine). Both loaded with 180gr. JHP.

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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#53

Post by jason812 »

The Annoyed Man wrote: OTH, I can dump 30 rounds into a target (with almost zero recoil management issues) pretty darn quick if I have to, and at that point, bullet expansion becomes academic.
You can make up for lack of expansion with more leakage holes. "rlol" Besides, I was taught you keep firing until the threat stops. It's best to have more bullets than you need than not enough.
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#54

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FastCarry wrote:
dragun wrote:My trusty 226 Tacops.
I think I've decided on a Sig emperor scorpion with 10 round mag and tlr1 hl.
I've also had my eye on the Emperor Scorpion but I wouldn't say no to a Scorpion either. I found a Scorpion with a threaded barrel but we chose to get a Winchester lever action in 45 colt instead. Have to say, did not regret that choice.
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#55

Post by FastCarry »

LosAlce wrote:
FastCarry wrote:
dragun wrote:My trusty 226 Tacops.
I think I've decided on a Sig emperor scorpion with 10 round mag and tlr1 hl.
I've also had my eye on the Emperor Scorpion but I wouldn't say no to a Scorpion either. I found a Scorpion with a threaded barrel but we chose to get a Winchester lever action in 45 colt instead. Have to say, did not regret that choice.
Ordered the Emperor Scorpion, now the wait for it to arrive at FFL!
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#56

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The Annoyed Man wrote:I'm a musician. MY big concern was discharging a firearm inside the confines of a house without proper ear protection, and what that might permanently do to my ears. I've already had some hearing loss from years of shooting and amplified guitars. My thought was that, if something went "bump" in the middle of the night:
  1. what time would be lost putting on ear pro?
  2. with ear pro on, would I be able to hear an intruder moving about my house?
  3. without ear pro, would I be able to hear anything my wife said after discharging said firearm?
a. depends on where you store them and how accessible they are.
b. can be an issue, unless you get some electronic earmuffs.

My home defense shotgun wears a set of inexpensive Caldwell earmuffs draped over the end of the magazine tube. It literally takes me 4 or 5 seconds (tops) to grab the muffs, put them on, and spin the knob to turn them on.

If I don't think I have those seconds to spare, I can just grab the shotgun and the muffs will just fall off.

Bonus: Since I'm not wearing my hearing aids when I sleep, the earmuffs amplify sound enough that I can hear pretty well. They're nowhere near as good as my aids, but non-electronic ear pro changes my "moderate to severe" hearing loss to "Huh?" ;-)
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#57

Post by FastCarry »

Ordered this morning, already have a FedEx tracking # for 2nd day delivery. Buds was quick on this one!
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#58

Post by carlson1 »

Sig P226 9mm with Sure Fire light on night stand. Next to my bed is a Mossberg 930 SPX with a sling and Sure Fire light. I think the shotgun is the best HD gun in most situations if using the right Ammo. Every home is different do to location, occupants, etc...,

I think white light is a must on a HD gun. I also believe in a sling for long guns used for HD. The sling to a long gun is a holster to a hand gun. It will help in aiding you to retain the long gun is worse case situations.
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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#59

Post by JRG »

carlson1 wrote:Next to my bed is a Mossberg 930 SPX with a sling and Sure Fire light. I think the shotgun is the best HD gun in most situations if using the right Ammo.

Carlson,

What do you feel is the right ammo for your Mossberg 930 SPX? I have been eyeing that particular model myself.

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Re: What is your night stand gun?

#60

Post by Skiprr »

This turned into a much longer post than intended. Sorry. But bear with me: I've been following this Topic and buried in here may be at least one tiny bit of information that someone might find mildly useful.
Soccerdad1995 wrote:Of course, the flip side is that you don't need long range accuracy for home defense, and an AK should be plenty accurate for the typical ranges involved (less than 25 yards in my house). So in other words, for home defense, either one should work fine. And both are better than a pistol.
I mostly agree. The AK--even a sloppy Russian mil-surp--isn't the inaccurate brick that some defame it as. A 400-yard shot with an standard AK? Nope. Not something I'd attempt. But at 100 yards it can have perfectly adequate combat accuracy.

That said, my HD primary is an AR for several reasons:
  1. Training and familiarity: I don't have to spend time thinking in order to operate an AR.
  2. Penetration: unobstructed, a 5.56 round will travel a long way, but once it encounters an interruption, like two pieces of sheetrock, it's less likely to cause unintended damage on the other side than even a 9mm pistol round.
  3. Payload: I have a number of Magpul 40-rounders and have tested them pretty extensively without a hiccup; I keep one round chambered and 38 in the mag, with a couple of charged spare mags in the nightstand.
  4. Effectiveness: I'm with TAM in my affinity for the .308, but the comparatively wimpy 5.56 is still superior to most handgun rounds (won't compare it to a .454 Casull or .500 S&W Magnum at close quarters, but still...)
  5. Speed and accuracy: with a good red-dot (I use EOTech), at HD or small-property distances you can quickly place rounds on multiple targets with a high degree of accuracy...and unlike "journalist" Gersh Kuntzman's assertion, a 5.56 AR rifle has virtually no felt recoil.
Items three and five are reasons I don't typically council a shotgun for primary home defense. It's been a go-to for years, and ain't no slouch. I love 'em, and have a customized Remmy 870 I wouldn't trade for the world. People unfamiliar with shotguns, though, tend to think of "spread," the patterning of shot as it leaves the barrel, as the reason to choose buckshot over a center-fire cartridge. They think that makes a shotgun more effective because precise aiming isn't important.

That's completely wrong, of course, in a home defense scenario. The typical formula for the progressive expansion of pellets out of a cylinder-bore shotgun barrel is two centimeters (0.8 inch) for every meter (39.4 inches) traveled. That varies from one centimeter up to about five depending on size of the shot, length of the barrel, choke, etc. Generally, the smaller the shot the more rapid the expansion...but also the less likely it is to be effective in a self-defense scenario. Shooting at bad guys in a home invasion with #4 shot may not have the immediately desired effect.

So at 10 yards--a reasonable HD situation--double-aught buck out of an 18" cylinder bore will spread to a pattern of approximately seven inches. Meaning you still have to be accurate with your aim, but you have an added issue that, even with a hit, one or more pellets may fly off unobstructed.

Semi-auto shotguns shoot softer than pumps, and you experienced three-gunners can put follow-up shots on target faster than any bad guy would expect. But you still have a limited number of rounds on board, and even highly skilled recharging of the tube can't compare to having 30 on-board with another 30 at the ready with a quick mag change.

The elephant in the room with any long gun for home defense is that, well, it's a long gun.

If you've ever done any shoot-house training you know that in residences--unless you live in a 20,000 square foot mansion with humongous open spaces--confines are relatively small, hallways and doorways are tight. If you are alone and not working as a trained tandem, clearing a residence with a rifle or shotgun is an iffy proposition. You simply do not have the maneuverability and retention capability a handgun offers. If you have rooms leading off at right-angles from a standard four-foot hallway, especially if those rooms are at the end of the hallway, you got big-time clearance problems even if you aren't using a long-barrelled tool.

In our case, it's a 2,500 square foot basic suburbia with two stories. The master is down, and no one is upstairs at night (home gym and three spare bedrooms). All three external doors were replaced with generic-looking steel doors painted white, with reinforced frames and long deadbolts; even a portable breaching ram would take a few hits to get through. Windows are 3M Safety and Security Film lined, but they are absolutely the vulnerable points; the glass won't shatter like a BG would expect--and it will give us plenty of noise alert time if we're home--and it's a relatively cheap way of doing a little to shore-up those vulnerable points. Monitored home alarm system with all exterior doors and windows on the ground floor sensored; motion sensor in the living room; no monitoring on the second floor. Video fore and aft; could do a much better job with that.

No kids and no other occupants is key for us. My wife's EDC is a Springer XD-S in 9mm, and she puts it on top of her nightstand when we go to bed. An AR is within immediate reach on my side of the bed. A Springer XD(M) .40 S&W full-size is my backup...in the extremely unlikely case we'd ever need to clear the building.

I'm not a fan of weapon-mounted lights on a handgun; never have been. Sitting beside my XD(M) is a SureFire P2X Fury Tactical; a bit too large for EDC, but a heckuva light. I won't go into all reasons I don't choose a handgun-mounted light, but a few are:
  • Weapon-mounted lights have to be extremely lightweight, and that lack of mass reduces the potential of the output.
  • Attaching the light to your firearm limits options: where your light originates is where your firearm is.
  • If you don't train regularly with that handgun and with that specific weapon-mounted light, your ability to get on target quickly will be compromised.
  • A quality flashlight is also a very effective impact instrument. Much more effective than an empty hand.
  • Force-on-force training has shown that most gunfight injuries will be to the hands and forearms. A weapon-mounted light puts all your eggs in one basket.
  • I prefer the Harries technique, but the so-called FBI method lets you use the light as a force-multiplier, blinding a potential BG before you lean in to clear a room.
Tip: if you live with anyone else who is firearm-competent (or even willing) train with them. Especially train with them in defense-of-residence. If something slams you awake at zero dark thirty, you should both react immediately, without needing to communicate.

Tip: you know your house better than anyone. Practice a home invasion scenario. Know how you'll react at first alert. Look for critical choke-points where you can gain an advantage by mounting mirrors or framed pictures that have reflective surfaces. If you have a two-storey, absolutely position a reflective surface that allows you to see the second-floor landing. Clearing residential rooms is difficult. Clearing a residential stairwell when you have no visual...not a good thing to attempt.
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