Ammo Change-Up

[FriscoKid]

Does any one else change up ammo in the middle of your magazine stack?

When I was an LEO, I carried a 15+1 9mm and two extra clips. The top 8 rounds in my gun were HydraShok, and everything from there down was ball ammo. The extra clips were all ball ammo.

My reasoning was this: In the vast majority of situations you're going to fire half a clip or less. Probably in over 95%. For the other 5%, the further you get into your ammo supply the more likely you're going to need penetration as opposed to expansion. Unless you're in the middle of the desert, the bad guys are going to have headed behind cars, walls, trees or something else by the time you get into your second clip for sure.

I was the only person in my department who carried ammo this way. Most of the old guys just carried all standard self-protection hollowpoints, and the younger guys all had three clips of Black Talon.

I don't carry the extra clips now, but I do still stack a half clip of expansion and a half clip of penetration ammo.

It's probably not all that important to change up if you're only carrying 6 or 8 rounds total.

Thoughts?

[GlockenHammer]

Overpenetration scares me. If I need to be penetrating cover to hit the BG, I can probably be making my own retreat. I'm 100% hollow points.

[AEA]

I am carrying 3 mags (they are not "clips") 2 of JHP (one in the pistol and one in a double mag carrier with the 3rd mag full of FMJ.

I have no requirement to retreat and I will not unless I run out of ammo.

[flintknapper]

Does any one else change up ammo in the middle of your magazine stack?

When I was an LEO, I carried a 15+1 9mm and two extra clips. The top 8 rounds in my gun were HydraShok, and everything from there down was ball ammo. The extra clips were all ball ammo.

My reasoning was this: In the vast majority of situations you're going to fire half a clip or less. Probably in over 95%. For the other 5%, the further you get into your ammo supply the more likely you're going to need penetration as opposed to expansion. Unless you're in the middle of the desert, the bad guys are going to have headed behind cars, walls, trees or something else by the time you get into your second clip for sure.

I was the only person in my department who carried ammo this way. Most of the old guys just carried all standard self-protection hollowpoints, and the younger guys all had three clips of Black Talon.

I don't carry the extra clips now, but I do still stack a half clip of expansion and a half clip of penetration ammo.

It's probably not all that important to change up if you're only carrying 6 or 8 rounds total.

Thoughts?

I am 100% hollow points.

If you have a magazine failure (or a stoppage that requires you to strip it from the weapon) then you would be left with only ball ammo to recharge with.

If you face multiple threats (more common these days), then 8 shots into the fight...you are relegated to using ball ammo.

Proper "Cover" will not be penetrated by either round, so hollow points may as well be used.

In any case, I wouldn't care to be shot with either one...and every person must carry what they are comfortable with.

[G.C.Montgomery]

Does any one else change up ammo in the middle of your magazine stack?

When I was an LEO, I carried a 15+1 9mm and two extra clips. The top 8 rounds in my gun were HydraShok, and everything from there down was ball ammo. The extra clips were all ball ammo.

My reasoning was this: In the vast majority of situations you're going to fire half a clip or less. Probably in over 95%. For the other 5%, the further you get into your ammo supply the more likely you're going to need penetration as opposed to expansion. Unless you're in the middle of the desert, the bad guys are going to have headed behind cars, walls, trees or something else by the time you get into your second clip for sure.

I was the only person in my department who carried ammo this way. Most of the old guys just carried all standard self-protection hollowpoints, and the younger guys all had three clips of Black Talon.

I don't carry the extra clips now, but I do still stack a half clip of expansion and a half clip of penetration ammo.

It's probably not all that important to change up if you're only carrying 6 or 8 rounds total.

Thoughts?

This is another one of those cases where you have a picture in your mind of how things are going to go and I may or may not share that picture. My picture of the world is one where I won't have time to remember whether or not I've gone through all my hollowpoints. The over penetration that everyone worries about is not completely mitigated by the use of hollowpoints anyway. The likelihood may be reduced but do remember that thousands of suspects have been shot with modern hollowpoints over the years and some of those bullets were never recovered from the suspects' bodies. If you are really that worried your bullet won't stop, take a clue from the movies and try beating the snot out of the suspect instead Back in the real world, try to remember that if the suspect is currently trying to kill you, you have a more immediate problem that demands a lot more of your attention than any potential civil or criminal trial after the fact.

Besides that, modern hollowpoint ammunition is designed and tested over and over again with hard barrier penetration in mind. That means, it's been fired through glass, wallboard, plywood and may be even thin autobody panels with the thought that it may be necessary to shoot through all of these. I personally have fired enough 9mm, .357Sig, .40 and .45ACP ammo through various types of clothing, windshields, car doors as well as various elements of residential structures that I'm confident in the ability of a modern hollowpoint, particularly the bonded designs, to get to my target on that one in a billion chance I even need to use a pistol to defend myself or someone else.

[FriscoKid]

Overpenetration scares me. If I need to be penetrating cover to hit the BG, I can probably be making my own retreat. I'm 100% hollow points.

That is, if you can retreat - assuming you're not pinned down or blocked in. In that case, overpenetration is kind of the point of the ball ammo. Having something with a little more depth potential if needed.

I understand what others are saying about modern hollowpoints having penetration comparable to ball ammo and that is a very good point. If you're stacked with 100% self-defense hollowpoints then you probably have a good all-purpose round for all but the most unusual situations.

Most officers I worked with carried "ultra expansion" type of ammo in their three MAGS (sorry, I was never military), leaving them with no other options. I always figured that penetration would become more important the further along you got in a prolonged fight.

[HighVelocity]

All hollowpoints here. If I was worried about shooting through hard cover, I'd carry a rifle. I am more concerned with the bullet travelling beyond it's inteneded target.

[Venus Pax]

I keep hollow points in my guns.
The other stuff is for the range.

[stevie_d_64]

Consistant load out...Speer Gold Dots...

I'm not looking to shoot through anything like windscreens or anything to stop a threat...I don't feel I'll ever have to do that...

The only other SD loads I carry are the RBCD stuff from San Antonio...I'm not sure what they would actually do against a windshield...

I might call them and ask what they think...I've never thought about that before...Al I know is they do a fabulous job against blocks of clay and duck-seal...

[stevie_d_64]

I'm not looking to shoot through anything like windscreens or anything to stop a threat...I don't feel I'll ever have to do that...

My reason (at the time) was because I lived in South Africa and taxi-drivers were a huge threat; so much so that I had to bump a taxi off the highway one dark morning.

Doesn't seem to happen here, thankfully

I agree, that was certainly a different environment to be in...

Here though, not so much...I'd be more of a bull-fighter, do my best impression of an "Ole!" and hope they cut their losses...

If anything I had heard in the past that the .357 SIG round had an interesting (all-around) windshield and stopping power performance, but it didn't make much of a impact in wide-spread usage here...

Its still around, but thats the only caliber/round out there I know of that was spoken highly of as a windshield penetrator...

I actually think anything will make a dent if you need it too...But I (and like you said) just don't see much of a market need to punch though a windshield from our perspective...

Something interesting to think about though...

[Dougmyers5]

First three rounds Hollow points then 1 FMJ and every other round Hollow point FMJ.

Extra mag 2 Hollow points then staggered FMJ and Hollow points.

[Skipper5]

I keep hollow points in my guns.
The other stuff is for the range.

Ditto here.