TexasCHLforum.com

This is my first post.

First,I appreciate the mission and high quality content I find here. I appreciate the substantial effort it takes to create something like this site.

I have one suggestion. I agreed to the terms to register, but I do find one term unsatisfactory:

"You agree that “TexasCHLforum.com” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit."

I found a thread here via search with a post from Mr. Cotton saying that a poster is notified (via PM I assume) whenever a post is edited. I would appreciate it if the terms said just that - that the forum moderators would make a reasonable attempt to promptly notify a user when a post from that user is modified, moved or deleted.

I've had some stuff removed before and have received messages as to why.

With this being your first and only post thus far though why are you so concerned?

PS Welcome to the board.

Welcome to the board.
Mr. Cotton made the rule that way so if the need arrises we are able to take care of Spam, Posts in multiple forums, the problems Mods have that the good members w/ some ethics never would think of doing.
If the rule was notify "everyone" there would be days our work load would quintuple.

With all due respect sir you are not the first that has had a better way to do this successful board than our leader, Charles Cotton.

atxgun wrote:I've had some stuff removed before and have received messages as to why.

With this being your first and only post thus far though why are you so concerned?

PS Welcome to the board.

Thanks for the welcome!

You should get the Terms as you prefer before you sign anything, of course, but I see little risk in this case by doing it just after.

I read any agreement that I sign, and have at least the minimal changes made I see appropriate. It may be my first post, but it's not my first forum or "Please sign here". I do it with my dentist, I do it with cell phone service, I do it with anything. I would encourage others to do so as well.

Contracts, user agreements, licenses, etc should be taken seriously by all parties. I'm not being critical of the forum administration here, but rather being critical of people who will sign anything and then ignore their commitments under the agreement.

I'm not "so concerned". If I thought it likely the administration maliciously edited posts, I would never visit here. I am just suggesting that "codifying" what Mr. Cotton says is already done into the Terms would be a courtesy to the registered users who take the content they contribute seriously.

longtooth wrote:Welcome to the board.[...]
With all due respect sir you are not the first that has had a better way to do this successful board than our leader, Charles Cotton.

Working on a way to show, in the Terms of Membership, respect and gratitude for the sincere contributions of dedicated members would, IMHO, be "a better way" than what is in place now in the Terms.

Finding a way of efficiently dealing with spammers and cross-posts as part of that would take some effort, but it is worth doing on any forum, like this one, that desires and appreciates high quality contributions.

When I read phrases like the "With all due respect sir" intro above, I often get the feeling that the writer is meaning the opposite - especially, in this example, considering the rest of the sentence. I think the usage is characteristic of some groups of people, especially the use of "sir" in a derogatory manner. I translate, in this case, "With all due respect" to include "(which is not much, in my opinion)". Am I mistaken?

Wow...

Interesting way to start your membership. Welcome.

KRM45 wrote:Wow...

Interesting way to start your membership. Welcome.

I agree with KRM45 and LT.

Welcome, in an unusual way.

Heh. Most folks make an error in judgement before they question the rules and Chas way of doing things.

If you have any advice for us on CHL issues, shooting, guns, or anything else firearm related now might be a good time to post it.

Anygunanywhere

dhranch wrote:

longtooth wrote:Welcome to the board.[...]
With all due respect sir you are not the first that has had a better way to do this successful board than our leader, Charles Cotton.

When I read phrases like the "With all due respect sir" intro above, I often get the feeling that the writer is meaning the opposite - especially, in this example, considering the rest of the sentence. I think the usage is characteristic of some groups of people, especially the use of "sir" in a derogatory manner. I translate, in this case, "With all due respect" to include "(which is not much, in my opinion)". Am I mistaken?

I think it was a typo.
LT should have used a capital "S" on sir.

In haste, he does this quite frequently.
We tend to forgive him.

dhranch wrote:This is my first post.

First,I appreciate the mission and high quality content I find here. I appreciate the substantial effort it takes to create something like this site.

I have one suggestion. I agreed to the terms to register, but I do find one term unsatisfactory:

"You agree that “TexasCHLforum.com” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit."

I found a thread here via search with a post from Mr. Cotton saying that a poster is notified (via PM I assume) whenever a post is edited. I would appreciate it if the terms said just that - that the forum moderators would make a reasonable attempt to promptly notify a user when a post from that user is modified, moved or deleted.

Welcome to the TexasCHLforum; we appreciate you joining us.

The terms that are presented when a person first registers for the TexasCHLforum were created by the development group at phpBB. Some of the terms are intended to protect phpBB and since their software is free and is subject to the GPL, I think it only fair to leave those terms unedited. I have considered adding a line that the user will abide by the rules of the TexasCHLforum as set out in the Announcements section, but to be candid, I don't have time to make the coding change.

I had forgotten that there was a term reserving the right to "remove, edit, move or close any topic." Had I written the "terms" I wouldn't have put that in because it is unnecessary to reserve a right to run a board as the owner sees fit. That said, it does at least notify the person registering that this is the policy of the board.

As a practical matter, the only time a post will be edited or deleted is in response to a rule violation. We never edit a post in such a way that it changes the author's meaning; we only delete profanity or a personal attack, although a personal attack usually gets the post deleted. In fact, we only do that for very new members and we send a PM asking them to comply with rules. If a veteran member posts profanity, we just delete the entire post and we don't send a PM. There's no reason to waste our time telling a veteran member what he/she already knows.

The same pretty much applies to locking a thread. We don't do it unless board rules are being violated and this is relatively rare. We used to lock duplicate threads, but we no longer do that as a general rule. If a thread is started in an inappropriate subforum, we move it to the correct one and we don't send any notice.

The members of TexasCHLforum are a great group of folks. They rarely violate the rules and most violations are related to new members who either didn't read the rules, or perhaps read them so quickly they missed something. The best analogy I've heard is that this forum is much like our home. I don't post rules of conduct outside my door, but if someone comes in and makes a personal attack on my family or guests, then they are out. Here, we do post rules of conduct, but it's still our Internet "home" and all we ask is that members treat each other with respect and comply with the rules.

One thing the Moderators won't do is get into discussions/arguments with members as to whether something violates the rules. I am a trial attorney and I fight those battles for a living; I won't do that here in my Internet "home."

I hope this explanation alleviates some of your concerns.

Chas.

dhranch wrote:

longtooth wrote:Welcome to the board.[...]
With all due respect sir you are not the first that has had a better way to do this successful board than our leader, Charles Cotton.

Working on a way to show, in the Terms of Membership, respect and gratitude for the sincere contributions of dedicated members would, IMHO, be "a better way" than what is in place now in the Terms.

Finding a way of efficiently dealing with spammers and cross-posts as part of that would take some effort, but it is worth doing on any forum, like this one, that desires and appreciates high quality contributions.

When I read phrases like the "With all due respect sir" intro above, I often get the feeling that the writer is meaning the opposite - especially, in this example, considering the rest of the sentence. I think the usage is characteristic of some groups of people, especially the use of "sir" in a derogatory manner. I translate, in this case, "With all due respect" to include "(which is not much, in my opinion)". Am I mistaken?

You are mistaken. If LT says it, you can take it to the bank.

anygunanywhere wrote: Welcome, in an unusual way.
Heh. Most folks make an error in judgement before they question the rules and Chas way of doing things.

Anygunanywhere

Thanks for the welcome! I have enjoyed and learned from your contributions.

Just a reminder: I am not questioning the rules or the way of doing things here. I am suggesting, in the appropriate place, that the forum commit to a reasonable attempt to notify people when (post facto) they change something that individual has written. I'm not objecting to the ability to delete or change anything posted.

I'm not trying to "make trouble", I hope that is clear. I think this is a great forum and highly value the work and leadership that goes into it.

I make errors in judgement like everyone else. Maybe this is an "anticipatory request".

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Welcome to the TexasCHLforum; we appreciate you joining us.

Thank you very much. I am glad to have found this place.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:The terms that are presented when a person first registers for the TexasCHLforum were created by the development group at phpBB. Some of the terms are intended to protect phpBB and since their software is free and is subject to the GPL, I think it only fair to leave those terms unedited. [...] I had forgotten that there was a term reserving the right to "remove, edit, move or close any topic." Had I written the "terms" I wouldn't have put that in because it is unnecessary to reserve a right to run a board as the owner sees fit. That said, it does at least notify the person registering that this is the policy of the board.

Thanks for clarifying the source of the terms. I like that it is explicit "right up front", so I hope you keep it.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As a practical matter, the only time a post will be edited or deleted is in response to a rule violation. We never edit a post in such a way that it changes the author's meaning; we only delete profanity or a personal attack[...] I hope this explanation alleviates some of your concerns.

I have been to otherwise worthwhile forums where the owner and moderators edit posts to suit their own sensibilities, without saying what those sensibilities are, or saying that they make such changes. It was OK with most people, but that's not for me.

Your statements marked in bold address my concerns very well. If posts are only modified or deleted in response to violations of rules, and those rules are available to be read by the members, then "it's all good".

I think active members who have a message deleted would appreciate a PM explaining why. I understand it's a little more effort, but it might help prevent them from reposting the same thing because they thought there was a technical error and the server dropped their message.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: One thing the Moderators won't do is get into discussions/arguments with members as to whether something violates the rules. I am a trial attorney and I fight those battles for a living; I won't do that here in my Internet "home."

I hope this explanation alleviates some of your concerns.

That is one of the things that has occasionally frustrated me. Open discussion of the rules and the interpretation is discouraged and it seems like some folks take it as a personal attack.

I am glad though that the the mods decided against locking every duplicate posts. It is one of things that I wished was discussed openly. I had made a few comments and I thought they were being ignored. Thanks for making things a little bit better.