TexasCHLforum.com

Market Section rule violations are growing dramatically. We abandoned a requirement that members have a minimum number of posts to sell in the Market Section, but Rule 13. makes it very clear that only participating members can sell items on TexasCHLforum. Here is the Rule:

Former Forum Rule 13 wrote:13. Posting items for sale/trade in the Market Section. Except for the FFL subsection, the Market is intended solely for contributing members (posts, not money) of TexasCHLforum.com. It was created as a courtesy to, and for the convenience of, our members, not as an open forum for marketing. We do not require a minimum number of posts in order to offer an item for sale, but members posting solely or predominantly "for sale" posts will be banned. All purchasers are strongly encouraged to get the full name, address and telephone number of a seller before purchasing an item and to verify that information. Refusal to provide that information to a purchaser will result in the seller being banned.

Unfortunately, we are seeing several new members making their first post (or very near first posts) in the Market Section offering items for sale. We've also noted that some members with dozens of posts are predominantly using TexasCHLforum as a place to sell. We are seeing more and more Market Section posts linking to ebay or other auction websites. This is going to stop. TexasCHLforum's Market Section is here solely as a courtesy and convenience for our participating members. The Market Section almost didn't get set up for fear of people turning it into little more than a commercial section for selling their goods without paying a fee. However, we decided to give it a try, because it would be convenient for our members. Until relatively recently, it has worked out well.

Starting today, only members with "Member" status can post items for sale in the Market Section. The software defaults the threshold for automatically changing from "Junior Member" to "Member" at 45 posts. Further, no links to auction websites or other websites are to be included in a "for sale" post. Any post violating these new rules will be deleted and we will stop sending PMs advising members why their post was deleted or moved to the Moderator Forum. We just don't have the time. No existing posts will be deleted, but all new posts violating these rules will be deleted.

There is nothing magical about 45 posts, but the Moderator workload related to Market Section violations is ridiculous. Every time they see a post from a member who recently joined and who has only a few posts, they have to check the member's profile and review all of their posts to see if they are posting solely or primarily in the Market Section. Then the Moderators discuss this person in the Moderator Forum before deciding what to do, if anything. We simply don't have the time to continue this process, so we are forced to establish a bright-line rule.

Some people will probably note that a member could just post a bunch of "me too" posts to get the count to 45. We recognize this possibility and we discussed it thoroughly. If we see that happening, then we will deal with it. The next step will be to either shut down the Market Section, or set up a donation procedure for people wanting to post items for sale. I don't like either of the latter two options, but this problem is going to be resolved.

To those members who have followed Rule 13 but do not yet have 45 posts, I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused by some members' rule violations.

Chas.

I apologize for being a lurker who rarely contributed to the community. I didn't join to sell stuff and have made a lot of visits to the forum to hone my knowledge on laws and places where carry is excluded. Many of my visits were without logging in.

Recently, I've been "adjusting" my gun collection and found the Market Place to be a convenient safe way to sell guns. In additon, it allowed me the opportunity to meet some great fellow CHL forum people face to face.

I realize that I've gotten a lot from the community and should contribute. Thanks to Charles' coaching, I have realized that sharing knowledge is the purpose of being here.

roshi brings up a good point. I'm sure the majority of members here don't post, they just read. You might want to consider counting their pages read or page views (whatever stats the board provide) as part of their participation score.

That being said... I like the new rule. I've even provided copies of my Drivers License and my CHL number to other chl's in a trade who have requested it. Obviously there has to be a balance in information provided, but I dont mind providing that info for a fellow chl. If the folks i'm trading with aren't from here though I ask to see their CHL ahead of time (my way of filtering out selling to felons without knowing).

I know it's a pain in the butt at times charles and it's probably occurred to you to just shut the trading section down. It's probably tempting to do so, but please don't do that if you can help it at all. I really enjoy having a place to trade guns online between CHLs. I'm even happy to step up and help with moderation if needed if that makes a difference.

LedJedi wrote:roshi brings up a good point. I'm sure the majority of members here don't post, they just read. You might want to consider counting their pages read or page views (whatever stats the board provide) as part of their participation score.

. . .

I know it's a pain in the butt at times charles and it's probably occurred to you to just shut the trading section down. It's probably tempting to do so, but please don't do that if you can help it at all. I really enjoy having a place to trade guns online between CHLs. I'm even happy to step up and help with moderation if needed if that makes a difference.

I don't know if we can even check the number of pages a member has read, but if it can be done, it can only be done from the Administrator's console and I don't begin to have the time to do that. We had to adopt the 45 post rule because even with all Moderators being to checks posts, it was taking an absurd amount of time. I considered a rule that would focus on the number of posts and the time a person had been registered as a member. However, if someone wanted to use the Market Section as a commercial outlet, as several were doing before the rule change, all they would have to do is register, not post anything, and mark their calendar when they could start selling.

All of the Moderators understand this is a very imperfect fix and it's unfortunate that some people who can't follow the rules made it necessary. But the workload related to the Market Section was growing dramatically and something had to be done.

The last thing we want to do is close the Market Section; it's too convenient for the members. I have considered a commercial marketing section with an annual fee, just to keep the causal sales by members away from commercial sales, but I don't like that either. This is a tough issue to deal with and we do understand the very valid concern you and Roshi raised.

Chas.

ahhh, yeah, i see your point. that would be crazy time consuming.

oh well, they can't all be golden eggs :)

carry on :)

The market section is a real good source for information and some really great deals on equipment. I read it nearly everyday, but have only posted in that section one time. No results, but I know some do and some don't. I truly hope everyone can cooperate and we can keep it.

I agree that this is worth keeping. I don't follow the classifieds of any other website. Here at TexasCHLForum, there is a more professional and gentle spirit of cooperation and community that I greatly appreciate. I have bought firearms from quite a number of the good people of this forum and in the process have been able to meet quite a few interesting and friendly people in person.

If we ever have to get to the point where we have to pay to post a Marketplace ad, I would support that decision.

An alternative to that is that you setup a "TexasCHLForum Supporter" class of member. People who pay a reasonable ($10 to $20?) annual or one-time fee become subscribers and only they may post in that forum.