Español

[Clutch]

I couldn't resist adding my $.02

I work in Peru. Spanish is spoken (actually Castellano). Just as I thought it very important, (out of respect), for me to learn the language of the country in which I reside 21 days per month, I believe it is equally important for others that live in the EE.UU to learn English. It's only a sign of respect. If you choose not to respect the place in which you live, then there are deeper problems that must be dealt with.

As far as racial jokes, I believe this, or any other forum about TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUNS LICENSES has no place for racism. Even just a little bit. The story is told of the kid whose Mother caught him lying and the kid justified it by saying it was just a little lie. So the mother made some brownies and put in 1 Tsp of Doggy doo. When the kid came to eat the brownies, his Mother told him, "it's just a little bit"! The point being, just a little bit can spoil the whole batch.

To justify a racial joke with a response is to condone the activity and therefore support it.

My Father used to tell me that "it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"...

I just couldn't heed my father's advice on this one...

[The Annoyed Man]

I never considered anyone foolish for not speaking perfect English, nor did I think they were lazy.

Never said you did.

No, but you said that you thought so about Americans who don't learn a second language, unless I misread your previous posts in this thread.

By the way, I am bilingual. I spoke French before I ever spoke English, and I can still carry on a fairly fluent conversation in French today. But I don't speak in French to my French-speaking relatives in front of non-French speakers. That would be rude, since I am fully capable of speaking English. But more importantly, when I'm in France - as a guest of that nation - I don't speak English with my relatives in front of non-English speakers, because that would be doubly rude.

My mother, bless her obsessive soul, speaks about 8 languages, including ancient Greek (which nobody speaks anymore), Latin, Spanish, Arabic, and a smattering of Russian. But then, she is a professional linguist with 14 published academic books under her belt.

But I don't speak Spanish. I don't think I have any obligation to learn Spanish. If I choose to do so, it will be because I have developed a casual interest in it, or perhaps because I may feel drawn to a mission field in a Spanish speaking country in the future; but not because someone else thinks I have an obligation to do so. And I certainly will refuse to learn it just because some other folks think I'm lazy if I don't. They can go pee up a rope. It is my observation that today's breed of immigration activist views it as an entitlement for immigrants that the rest of us must learn to speak the immigrant language, instead of the quite normal and logical expectation of immigrants (both on the parts of Americans and on the parts of the immigrants) of previous generations that they should attach a high priority to learning our language.

Never before in the entire panoply of human history has it ever been considered politically correct and expected for the citizens of even a welcoming host nation to have to learn the language of the primary (or even the secondary or tertiary) immigrant group. That has always been an illogical supposition, and it remains one today. The notion that citizens are lazy because they don't want to have to do it is a false accusation. People are busy. They are trying to live their lives and earn their wages -- some of which will be confiscated for the benefit of the immigrant population -- and they don't have time to devote to it. If they would rather relax in the evening and watch reruns of Hawaii Five 0 instead of taking a language class, who can blame them? As the government dithers about controlling immigration (please note that I said control, not limit, which are two very different things), is it any wonder that these same taxpayers have some frustrations, which in addition to being frustrated about having to contribute financially to immigrant populations who are here illegally, also spill over into frustrations about being expected to learn the immigrant language too?

BTW, will someone clue this old fart as to the meaning of "EE.UU?" Thank you very much.

[suthdj]

Our business & Goverment encourages non-natives to not learn English, everything is catered to in many languages. They are easier to control and manipulate and because of their "Handicap" they can be hired for less. When you can't speak the language you lose the ability to express yourself so no matter how smart you are nobody will ever know, as the saying goes "Lost in translation". A big issue I see in the different ethnic communities is they don't really try to learn the language instead they submerse themselves in their own community which does not force them to learn English and it is not just Mexicans they are just the largest group.

[suthdj]

I never considered anyone foolish for not speaking perfect English, nor did I think they were lazy.

Never said you did.

No, but you said that you thought so about Americans who don't learn a second language, unless I misread your previous posts in this thread.

By the way, I am bilingual. I spoke French before I ever spoke English, and I can still carry on a fairly fluent conversation in French today. But I don't speak in French to my French-speaking relatives in front of non-French speakers. That would be rude, since I am fully capable of speaking English. But more importantly, when I'm in France - as a guest of that nation - I don't speak English with my relatives in front of non-English speakers, because that would be doubly rude.

My mother, bless her obsessive soul, speaks about 8 languages, including ancient Greek (which nobody speaks anymore), Latin, Spanish, Arabic, and a smattering of Russian. But then, she is a professional linguist with 14 published academic books under her belt.

But I don't speak Spanish. I don't think I have any obligation to learn Spanish. If I choose to do so, it will be because I have developed a casual interest in it, or perhaps because I may feel drawn to a mission field in a Spanish speaking country in the future; but not because someone else thinks I have an obligation to do so. And I certainly will refuse to learn it just because some other folks think I'm lazy if I don't. They can go pee up a rope. It is my observation that today's breed of immigration activist views it as an entitlement for immigrants that the rest of us must learn to speak the immigrant language, instead of the quite normal and logical expectation of immigrants (both on the parts of Americans and on the parts of the immigrants) of previous generations that they should attach a high priority to learning our language.

Never before in the entire panoply of human history has it ever been considered politically correct and expected for the citizens of even a welcoming host nation to have to learn the language of the primary (or even the secondary or tertiary) immigrant group. That has always been an illogical supposition, and it remains one today. The notion that citizens are lazy because they don't want to have to do it is a false accusation. People are busy. They are trying to live their lives and earn their wages -- some of which will be confiscated for the benefit of the immigrant population -- and they don't have time to devote to it. If they would rather relax in the evening and watch reruns of Hawaii Five 0 instead of taking a language class, who can blame them? As the government dithers about controlling immigration (please note that I said control, not limit, which are two very different things), is it any wonder that these same taxpayers have some frustrations, which in addition to being frustrated about having to contribute financially to immigrant populations who are here illegally, also spill over into frustrations about being expected to learn the immigrant language too?

BTW, will someone clue this old fart as to the meaning of "EE.UU?" Thank you very much.

Here is what I found.

EEUU-"Estados Unidos" is abbreviated as "EEUU" (also: EE. UU.) because in
Spanish the abbreviation for a plural item doubles the letter of the
abbreviation. The same is done, for example, with the abbreviation for
"Fuerzas Armadas" (= Armed Forces), which is "FF. AA.", indicating
that the abbreviation relates to a plural term.
The English language knows this custom too, albeit in a few cases
only. For instance, the abbreviation for "page" in singular is "p.",
while "pages" in plural are abbreviated as "pp.".
Sometimes, however, the abbreviation "EUA" (Estados Unidos de América)
for the United States is indeed used in Spanish, but not often.

[Salty1]

I find this very simple, for English welcome and please enjoy the forum, for other languages hit the x in the upper right hand corner..... problem solved.....................

[3dfxMM]

While spanish is certainly a common "second language" in Texas, there are a number of cultural and historical reasons why isn't not an official second language.

We don't even have an official first language.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Because we have no fluient Spanish moderators & therefore are not able to moderate it.

Fair enough...

[The Annoyed Man]

While spanish is certainly a common "second language" in Texas, there are a number of cultural and historical reasons why isn't not an official second language.

We don't even have an official first language.

No, we don't have an "official" first language. But we do have a de facto first language. Tell me, what language you think is being spoken in the halls of Congress this morning? What language do you suppose is being spoken in the Oval Office this morning? What language do police, fire, and paramedic dispatchers use? What language is used nearly unanimously on traffic signs? In what language is the Supreme Court debating its opinions? In which language is the United States Code written? In which language is the Constitution written? The Declaration of Independence? Etc., etc., etc.

Sure, you can watch TV in Spanish. You can take ESL classes in high school and Junior College. Heck, in California you can even take your driver's license exam in Mandarin! ( )

But the undeniable truth is that English is the lingua franca, or common language, of the United States of America, and until an immigrant (regardless of their national origin) learns to speak it, they can never be fully integrated into American life. And as long as entire communities insist that English is not the national language, and that they have no obligation to the country that now nurtures them and advances the quality of their existence to learn its de facto national language, then America becomes a nation divided rather than united. At that point, it is no longer a melting pot. Immigrant peoples simply cannot have it both ways. Without the common language of English, the melting pot does not exist. Without the melting pot, the benefits of American residency and/or citizenship can never be fully realized for immigrants. Worse yet, without the melting pot, the benefits of citizenship for Americans who already hold it is degraded.

United we stand. Divided we fall. It is axiomatic throughout human history that people are bound by common language and traditions even more strongly than they are bound by national boundaries. And in a nation like ours were there is no cultural homogeneity, it works only if we acknowledge the primacy of a common language. America has been successful precisely because immigrant populations have always been willing to subsume a certain portion of their cultural identities to that unique identity of becoming Americans. Not giving up their cultural identities, but prioritizing themselves as Americans of Italian descent, Americans of Hispanic descent, or Americans of African descent; rather than Italian Americans, Hispanic Americans, or African Americans.

Merriam Webster dictionary defines "Subsume" thus:

to include or place within something larger or more comprehensive : encompass as a subordinate or component element <red, green, and yellow are subsumed under the term “color”>

And the vehicle for that subsuming of cultural identity is commonality of language. Without it, America is toast.

[jimlongley]

- .... .. ... - .... .-. . -.. .. ... -.- .. -. -.. --- ..-. ... .. .-.. .-.. -.--

[Keith B]

[quote="jimlongley"]- .... .. ... - .... .-. . -.. .. ... -.- .. -. -.. --- ..-. ... .. .-.. .-.. -.--[/quote

Yes, this thread is kind of silly. Bottom line, it takes time for us to try and translate other languages, codes or cyphers, so all posts should be made in plain text English so all members and Mods can read and interpret as easily as possible.

[jimlongley]

- .... .. ... - .... .-. . -.. .. ... -.- .. -. -.. --- ..-. ... .. .-.. .-.. -.--[/quote

Yes, this thread is kind of silly. Bottom line, it takes time for us to try and translate other languages, codes or cyphers, so all posts should be made in plain text English so all members and Mods can read and interpret as easily as possible.

My point exactly - and I know several other "languages" I could make the statement in, but geez, talk about a tempest in a teapot.

[joe817]

- .... .. ... - .... .-. . -.. .. ... -.- .. -. -.. --- ..-. ... .. .-.. .-.. -.--[/quote

Yes, this thread is kind of silly. Bottom line, it takes time for us to try and translate other languages, codes or cyphers, so all posts should be made in plain text English so all members and Mods can read and interpret as easily as possible.

.. .- --. .-. . . ! or for those that don't speak morse code:

IMHO, those that refuse to speak the common language of the land is a divisive factor for us all. And that is not acceptable.

[Tregs]

The Tower of Babel comes to mind......

[StewNTexas]

Earlier in my life I was tri-lingual. I could speak 'trash' and 'be-bop'. As I got older I seem to have lost this ability.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

IMHO, those that refuse to speak the common language of the land is a divisive factor for us all. And that is not acceptable.

Agree 1000%

Imagine where we would be today if all of our potential citizens had REFUSED to learn OUR language and adapted to OUR culture.

Amazingly enough, American english was good enough for the formerly French, German, Italian, Russian, Greek, Norwegian, Swedes, Finns, Dutch and countless others from nations around the world who chose to immigrate here to the states.

What makes modern day spanish speakers special?

Oh yea...nothing.

Why is it all the sudden an issue to be EXPECTED to learn the language of OUR land and OUR constitution?

English. Learn it, use it, or go home imo.