Naming Names

[boomerang]

We have had discussions about instructors who were either intentionally misleading (potential) students about the CHL laws, or were not competent and didn't know the laws. In those discussions, it was "discouraged" to name names.
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever the reasons for that, wouldn't those same reasons apply equally to naming names of gun shops that have bad customer service?
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Curious about the difference.

[rgoldy]

I would agree. If it is a bad idea to mention an instructor that the reportee felt did a poor job, then it should by corollary be just as bad an idea to mention, gun shops, gun ranges, police departments, or anything else by direct reference.
Sounds like a silly idea overall to me. Most of us (I think) are smart enough to know that opinions expressed here are just that, opinions. Whether I THINK an instructor did a good job, omitted something important, lied to me etc is valid and important in allowing other forum members to collect information they need. Other students may have different OPINIONS. I would hope that they would also feel free to express them. Especially if they are contrary.
Bad experiences are subjective. Doesn't mean they are not valid. I would think that the forum would be the ideal place to post such information. In the interests of finding the GOOD experiences and flagging the BAD ones in any context that apply to our interests here.

[Keith B]

We have had discussions about instructors who were either intentionally misleading (potential) students about the CHL laws, or were not competent and didn't know the laws. In those discussions, it was "discouraged" to name names.
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever the reasons for that, wouldn't those same reasons apply equally to naming names of gun shops that have bad customer service?
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Curious about the difference.

I read the CHL instructor thread and don't see where anyone said don't post their name, but I think in some other threads it was suggested you don't.

You must understand that be it a CHL instructor or a business, statements made by someone on the forum could be used in a libel suit if the individual or business decided you had defamed their business' or personal character. I think the thing here is to be cautious of what you say, no matter what, when you are speaking about any business or CHL instructor. Instructors, being individuals and often basing their clientèle on a word of mouth referral type system, may be more likely to take offense to the statements and decide you have caused them harm vs. an open door business who has walk-in traffic; especially when this forum is targeted at the CHL population and those interested in CHL.

So, just be cautious what you say and don't commit libel.

[rgoldy]

I do not see how LIBEL applies. Unless what is posted is a lie and/or has the intent of harming the business of the instructor or the instructor personally, it is just the opinion of one person who has had direct interaction with that business. If I go to a store and am offended by the poor service or poor quality of the purchase, is it your contention that I should not say anything to other people who might also want to buy that product?
Is that just a convention of this forum? If so, why does it not apply to other subjects as well ?

[Keith B]

I do not see how LIBEL applies. Unless what is posted is a lie and/or has the intent of harming the business of the instructor or the instructor personally, it is just the opinion of one person who has had direct interaction with that business. If I go to a store and am offended by the poor service or poor quality of the purchase, is it your contention that I should not say anything to other people who might also want to buy that product?
Is that just a convention of this forum? If so, why does it not apply to other subjects as well ?

Where did I ever say you couldn't post the fact? I just said you need to be cautious.

I am not saying that stating you had poor service in a store or got bad information from a CHL instructor, etc. on the forum is libel, BUT if someone decides that your post is false and think it has caused the business or person damage by the statement, then they can sue. Ask your TV station lawyers about it. Anyone can sue for libel and the courts would have to decide if the statement was false and if it had in fact defamed the character of the business or person.

[Charles L. Cotton]

We have had discussions about instructors who were either intentionally misleading (potential) students about the CHL laws, or were not competent and didn't know the laws. In those discussions, it was "discouraged" to name names.
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever the reasons for that, wouldn't those same reasons apply equally to naming names of gun shops that have bad customer service?
Example: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Curious about the difference.

You raise a legitimate question and it is one I have struggled with over the years. On one hand I want members to be able to learn and benefit from the experience of others, but on the other hand I realize that most, perhaps all, of the persons or entities complained of do not follow the TexasCHLforum and thus do not have a chance to present their side of the issue. We all know there are two sides to every story and as an attorney, I appreciate this fact more than most.

As Keith discussed, there is a difference between reports dealing with CHL instructors and a walk-in business. When there are complaints about a store, it is far more likely that other people doing business with that establishment will be on the Forum who can post their experiences. The Bachman thread is a good example. However, no CHL instructor trains very many people in the grand scheme of things, so the chance that controverting opinions (or confirming opinions) will be offered here is pretty slim. There are exceptions obviously, but everyone loves ElGato and Crossfire! So a single bad experience, whether real or perceived, can have more of an impact on a CHL instructor than Best Buy, Sears, or a local gun store. It really is a balancing act and not an easy one at that.

As Keith pointed out, there is no blanket rule not to identify any person or entity. However, on a case-by-case basis, if we read a post that we believe is defamatory, then you can bet it or the identifying language will be deleted. Examples include calling someone a thief, dishonest, a liar, etc. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is trying to educate fellow gun owners and when their goal is to vent and/or ruin someone's business or reputation. The former is okay, the latter is not.

It's a tough call and one we try to make in good faith.

Chas.