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I am fairly new (since March 2016) in teaching LTC classes. I guess I live in an extremely sheltered life that I don’t personally associate with anyone with criminal background. I was surprised by all the questions I have gotten from people asking about their eligibility due to some kind of criminal backgrounds. I also had two students cancelled the class last minute because they found out that they will not be eligible to obtain the LTC license from DPS.

This got me thinking since there is no background check requirement in my defensive pistol classes (for that matter it is not required for most of the training I have taken personally), how can I make sure I am not training criminals? Do any of you do criminal background checks on potential non-LTC students? If so, what is the best way to do this?

I would think the easiest and cheapest way to ensure you aren't training criminals is to ask to see a CHL the day people show up for you class. Make sure you show when they sign up it is required. Other than that, I think it would be a pain to have to look up if you don't have access to law enforcement databases.

I took a defensive handgun class a few years ago. Valid CHL was a prerequisite for the course.

I had an experience some years ago that still has me shaking my head.

I was waiting weather at El Paso airport, and got to talking with another pilot also grounded for the moment. He was a commercial pilot who also flew for the Highway Patrol in some state up north, Montana maybe, and in the course of the discussion, he told me about how hard it was to recruit for highway patrol officers, due to candidates having criminal records. Some enormous percentage of them had rap sheets.

How hard can it be to make it to adulthood without a criminal record? It's a lot harder when it is something to be ashamed of, an embarrassment, instead of a rite of passage, for crying out loud.

I too shake my head at the number of people I have met that have spent 1 or more nights in jail for things I would call stupid. I tend to joke around with people saying I've spent the night in a federal penitentiary. The statement is true, but I was not there because I broke the law. Work sent me to do some maintenance on a system they had. I was there from 10pm until 4pm the next day, so I can literally say I spent the night in a federal penitentiary.

I think it's a sign of the times though. Parents who refuse to be parents, and so the kids are able to get away with more and more growing up. Once they reach their teen years, the police are the ones who enforce the punishment because the parents never really did.

While I think the morals of our country are quickly deteriorating and these new Safe Space having, Social Justice Warriors are a scary sign of the direction our country is taking.

That being said, we also have a problem with laws. There is a law for everything. All too often there has been a large push to try to legislate bad or unwanted behavior and sadly I think alot of that comes from the Protestant/Evangelical right more then the left. Freedom is scary, and sometimes that freedom allows other to not act the way you think they should, but doesn't mean the answer is legislation.

I once had an Officer tell me, if I want to arrest you, I can find a reason if I look hard enough, because there is a law for just about everything. Its about true, and none of it ever gets repealed. They just forget about them and stop enforcing them. There are entire books on silly laws that are still on the books in all of the states.

Flightmare wrote: I too shake my head at the number of people I have met that have spent 1 or more nights in jail for things I would call stupid. I tend to joke around with people saying I've spent the night in a federal penitentiary. The statement is true, but I was not there because I broke the law. Work sent me to do some maintenance on a system they had. I was there from 10pm until 4pm the next day, so I can literally say I spent the night in a federal penitentiary.

I think it's a sign of the times though. Parents who refuse to be parents, and so the kids are able to get away with more and more growing up. Once they reach their teen years, the police are the ones who enforce the punishment because the parents never really did.

I remember when the threat of having a blemish permanently on my record help keep me on the straight and narrow. Not that I was a saint, but I knew where to draw the line as to what I would and wouldn't do, knowing the consequences of being caught. As a manager for the past 12 years, I have had to hire people to work for me, and the location(s) I worked required an almost spotless record, and the main hurdle in hiring anyone was the fact that so many could't pass a criminal history check. Some of them were honest about their criminal history, and I was able to tell them up front that they would not be suitable candidates, but others tried to lie and, I guess, hope that no one really checked. They acted surprised when I called them to tell them that their past was a disqualifier. And these were all felonies that they had on their record, we were allowed to overlook most misdemeanors, but, I was really surprised at the number of seemingly intelligent people who had been so stupid.

Jusme wrote:

Flightmare wrote: I too shake my head at the number of people I have met that have spent 1 or more nights in jail for things I would call stupid. I tend to joke around with people saying I've spent the night in a federal penitentiary. The statement is true, but I was not there because I broke the law. Work sent me to do some maintenance on a system they had. I was there from 10pm until 4pm the next day, so I can literally say I spent the night in a federal penitentiary.

I think it's a sign of the times though. Parents who refuse to be parents, and so the kids are able to get away with more and more growing up. Once they reach their teen years, the police are the ones who enforce the punishment because the parents never really did.

I remember when the threat of having a blemish permanently on my record help keep me on the straight and narrow. Not that I was a saint, but I knew where to draw the line as to what I would and wouldn't do, knowing the consequences of being caught. As a manager for the past 12 years, I have had to hire people to work for me, and the location(s) I worked required an almost spotless record, and the main hurdle in hiring anyone was the fact that so many could't pass a criminal history check. Some of them were honest about their criminal history, and I was able to tell them up front that they would not be suitable candidates, but others tried to lie and, I guess, hope that no one really checked. They acted surprised when I called them to tell them that their past was a disqualifier. And these were all felonies that they had on their record, we were allowed to overlook most misdemeanors, but, I was really surprised at the number of seemingly intelligent people who had been so stupid.

I remember a co-worker who is based in Canon City, CO tell me that they had trouble opening the Chili's in town. They had trouble finding enough staff that could pass a drug test. It seems personal responsibility and common sense are so rare these days, they should be considered a super power.

Pariah3j wrote:While I think the morals of our country are quickly deteriorating and these new Safe Space having, Social Justice Warriors are a scary sign of the direction our country is taking.

That being said, we also have a problem with laws. There is a law for everything. All too often there has been a large push to try to legislate bad or unwanted behavior and sadly I think alot of that comes from the Protestant/Evangelical right more then the left. Freedom is scary, and sometimes that freedom allows other to not act the way you think they should, but doesn't mean the answer is legislation.

I once had an Officer tell me, if I want to arrest you, I can find a reason if I look hard enough, because there is a law for just about everything. Its about true, and none of it ever gets repealed. They just forget about them and stop enforcing them. There are entire books on silly laws that are still on the books in all of the states.

That may be true to a degree, especially traffic laws, as a LEO, it was not hard to find a violation in every block, if I wanted to push the extreme. But as I said in my previous post, the number of people who had committed sexual offenses, aggravated robbery, burglary, felonious assault, and even manslaughter was mind boggling, not to mention the drug dealer still on probation in one county, after several arrests and convictions, wanting work at a college, where I was operations manager, and was surprised that I had to turn him down. I am aware that there are some laws that need to be either revamped, or completely repealed, but behavior is not the same thing as actual criminal acts, I never had to turn down a candidate because he was arrested for trespassing, loitering, breaking curfew, misdemeanor minor in possession of alcohol, disorderly conduct, or most other behavior centered crimes, but rather things that are not newly introduced as criminal acts, the majority go back to the book of Exodus.

Flightmare wrote:

Jusme wrote:

Flightmare wrote: I too shake my head at the number of people I have met that have spent 1 or more nights in jail for things I would call stupid. I tend to joke around with people saying I've spent the night in a federal penitentiary. The statement is true, but I was not there because I broke the law. Work sent me to do some maintenance on a system they had. I was there from 10pm until 4pm the next day, so I can literally say I spent the night in a federal penitentiary.

I think it's a sign of the times though. Parents who refuse to be parents, and so the kids are able to get away with more and more growing up. Once they reach their teen years, the police are the ones who enforce the punishment because the parents never really did.

I remember when the threat of having a blemish permanently on my record help keep me on the straight and narrow. Not that I was a saint, but I knew where to draw the line as to what I would and wouldn't do, knowing the consequences of being caught. As a manager for the past 12 years, I have had to hire people to work for me, and the location(s) I worked required an almost spotless record, and the main hurdle in hiring anyone was the fact that so many could't pass a criminal history check. Some of them were honest about their criminal history, and I was able to tell them up front that they would not be suitable candidates, but others tried to lie and, I guess, hope that no one really checked. They acted surprised when I called them to tell them that their past was a disqualifier. And these were all felonies that they had on their record, we were allowed to overlook most misdemeanors, but, I was really surprised at the number of seemingly intelligent people who had been so stupid.

I remember a co-worker who is based in Canon City, CO tell me that they had trouble opening the Chili's in town. They had trouble finding enough staff that could pass a drug test. It seems personal responsibility and common sense are so rare these days, they should be considered a super power.

Careful, Icarus...

Many people have things in their past they are not proud of. Stuff happens when you're young but that is also what builds an adult into who they are. Live and learn and don't judge others.

Max

Maxwell wrote:

Flightmare wrote:

Jusme wrote:

Flightmare wrote: I too shake my head at the number of people I have met that have spent 1 or more nights in jail for things I would call stupid. I tend to joke around with people saying I've spent the night in a federal penitentiary. The statement is true, but I was not there because I broke the law. Work sent me to do some maintenance on a system they had. I was there from 10pm until 4pm the next day, so I can literally say I spent the night in a federal penitentiary.

I think it's a sign of the times though. Parents who refuse to be parents, and so the kids are able to get away with more and more growing up. Once they reach their teen years, the police are the ones who enforce the punishment because the parents never really did.

I remember when the threat of having a blemish permanently on my record help keep me on the straight and narrow. Not that I was a saint, but I knew where to draw the line as to what I would and wouldn't do, knowing the consequences of being caught. As a manager for the past 12 years, I have had to hire people to work for me, and the location(s) I worked required an almost spotless record, and the main hurdle in hiring anyone was the fact that so many could't pass a criminal history check. Some of them were honest about their criminal history, and I was able to tell them up front that they would not be suitable candidates, but others tried to lie and, I guess, hope that no one really checked. They acted surprised when I called them to tell them that their past was a disqualifier. And these were all felonies that they had on their record, we were allowed to overlook most misdemeanors, but, I was really surprised at the number of seemingly intelligent people who had been so stupid.

I remember a co-worker who is based in Canon City, CO tell me that they had trouble opening the Chili's in town. They had trouble finding enough staff that could pass a drug test. It seems personal responsibility and common sense are so rare these days, they should be considered a super power.

Careful, Icarus...

Many people have things in their past they are not proud of. Stuff happens when you're young but that is also what builds an adult into who they are. Live and learn and don't judge others.

Max

I know everyone has a past. What I was referring to at the time, although I failed to communicate it was the people who I have met who get put in jail for theft or assault, and then blame someone else. Those are the ones who do not take responsibility for their actions. I have more respect for people who when they make a mistake, they own up to it. A friend of mine has a state jail felony on his record for pouring sugar free syrup into someone's gas tank. He admits it was a foolish mistake, and to this day it causes him trouble finding employment. I respect him because he has chosen to take responsibility for his actions, rather than blame the person who reported him, or the LEO who arrested him. My apologies for not making that clearer.

Maxwell wrote:Careful, Icarus...

Many people have things in their past they are not proud of. Stuff happens when you're young but that is also what builds an adult into who they are. Live and learn and don't judge others.

Max

Might I also add that there are some of us who have had to deal with a spouse (ex-spouse now) who lie to authorities and have you charged with serious felonies. And only after spending time in jail, money for bail, money for attorney, missed work, and losing my CHL and gun rights for a year and half while proving my innocence... was I able to finally get the case dismissed. *** And by dismissed, I mean no probation, no community service, no deferred adjudication, no pleading guilty or nolo, NOTHING. I had to go through all this for something I didn't do. And the kicker is.... the arrest is on my record for 3 years and my name is forever in a database of domestic violence offenders. Just because of an arrest.

So anyone who runs my record will now see that and I can guarantee a domestic violence arrest, even without being convicted, will often times disqualify me for certain things. That's pretty fair right?

Sorry, but the justice system is truly guilty until you prove your innocence.

Ryan wrote:

Maxwell wrote:Careful, Icarus...

Many people have things in their past they are not proud of. Stuff happens when you're young but that is also what builds an adult into who they are. Live and learn and don't judge others.

Max

Might I also add that there are some of us who have had to deal with a spouse (ex-spouse now) who lie to authorities and have you charged with serious felonies. And only after spending time in jail, money for bail, money for attorney, missed work, and losing my CHL and gun rights for a year and half while proving my innocence... was I able to finally get the case dismissed. *** And by dismissed, I mean no probation, no community service, no deferred adjudication, no pleading guilty or nolo, NOTHING. I had to go through all this for something I didn't do. And the kicker is.... the arrest is on my record for 3 years and my name is forever in a database of domestic violence offenders. Just because of an arrest.

So anyone who runs my record will now see that and I can guarantee a domestic violence arrest, even without being convicted, will often times disqualify me for certain things. That's pretty fair right?

Sorry, but the justice system is truly guilty until you prove your innocence.

I understand that there are one time offenders, who learn and move on, and there are those who through no fault of their own are subjected to the inequities of the justice system, and and would like to clarify, that I was not judging people for making mistakes, I have my share of things I wish I could do over, I was referring to those who make mistake after mistake, with increasing severity, across several states, who then expect another chance when they have been given more than their fair share. I never turned down an applicant because of an arrest, if there was no conviction, then it was not a mark against him/her. When I would run a criminal history, I would sometimes get a twelve to fifteen page report, detailing arrests, convictions, sentences, probation violations, etc. and the applicant may not have listed anything, which left me no options as to their hiring status. Even if they had one felony( depending on the particular offense) and had served their time and had no further issues, I could sometimes get them a waiver, but the habitual criminal, who was only a dirty UA away from more time in the pen, seemed to be the norm rather than the exception.

Flightmare wrote: I remember a co-worker who is based in Canon City, CO tell me that they had trouble opening the Chili's in town. They had trouble finding enough staff that could pass a drug test. It seems personal responsibility and common sense are so rare these days, they should be considered a super power.

I find this very hard to believe. I worked in many restaurants during high school and college (including several Chili's) and not a single one ever drug tested.

thenick_ttu wrote:

Flightmare wrote: I remember a co-worker who is based in Canon City, CO tell me that they had trouble opening the Chili's in town. They had trouble finding enough staff that could pass a drug test. It seems personal responsibility and common sense are so rare these days, they should be considered a super power.

I find this very hard to believe. I worked in many restaurants during high school and college (including several Chili's) and not a single one ever drug tested.

In Colorado...nowadays? Drug test? Good luck...