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Does anyone remember that if DPS requires DAO only on revolvers and DAO for the first round on DA/SA pistols? How about engaging external safeties with guns have them prior to start?

When my wife and I took our tests, the instructor made a point during the classroom session to say "All weapons that have safeties must have them engaged when they aren't being fired." He also pointed out that people with most revolvers, and Glocks were exempt since they don't have external safeties. During the shooting portion, after each round, once we cleared our weapons and set them down, he would come by and check, definitely for clear, presumably for safeties engaged(My wife and I tested on Glocks, so I can't speak the accuracy of his checks.). Hope that helps.

When I took my test, I cant recall anything about safeties, only about handling your guns in a safe manner and the four safety rules. I shoot regularly on a Glock, so I wouldn't be comfortable carry a gun that has a safety.

I can find are no DPS requirements, AG opinions, or published guidelines regarding DAO on revolvers or "safeties on" during the proficiency test.
The proficiency requirements are published under the Admin Code at Title 37/Part1/Chapter 6/Subchapter B/Rule §6.11

That said, demonstrating safe gun handling is (At least for me!) part of the proficiency course, and if an instructor feels the need to have "safeties on" when not shooting, that's his/her perogative on the firing line. But it's not codified in any rule, or part of the proficiency requirements.

I think this is up to the instructor and the range rules. I think its a silly demand to have the gun on safety once you have started firing. Although removing the safety first thing and setting it when finished is not a terrible idea. Most semi automatics will expose the open chamber and is a simple thing to walk the line and check for empty chambers.

Ditto on the "it depends on the instructor". Ours only asked that the guns always be pointed downrange (not up in the air or down at the ground) he knew we were empty when slides locked back, and when we loaded to make ready, to act as though we had a threat in front of us (ie don't take your eyes off the target/threat).

Revolvers I can only remember him saying the tests no longer segregated those who tested on semi autos and those who used revolvers. You can test with either and decide to carry whatever you wanted later. You weren't restricted to one or the other anymore. That was about it. Have plenty of moon clips to not keep your class mates waiting

When instructors renew and have to shoot, we shoot both revolvers and semi-autos. We can shoot the revolvers either single action or double action. Nothing was mentioned about DA/SA semi-autos, but I feel certain the same rule applied in terms of the first round fired.

Chas.

This question came up during the last Instructor Renewal Class, & the response given was that there's not a requirement for DA vs SA, or safety on vs safety off.

From a training perspective, I have them use whatever condition the gun will be in while carrying & employing it defensively as this builds muscle memory (DA for a revolver; first shot in DA for a DA/SA semi-auto, then decock before the next engagement; safety engaged for a SA-only like a 1911, then reengage the safety before the next engagement; etc). The more repetitions an action is done, the more fluid it will be under stress.

LosAlce wrote:Ditto on the "it depends on the instructor". Ours only asked that the guns always be pointed downrange (not up in the air or down at the ground) he knew we were empty when slides locked back, and when we loaded to make ready, to act as though we had a threat in front of us (ie don't take your eyes off the target/threat).

Revolvers I can only remember him saying the tests no longer segregated those who tested on semi autos and those who used revolvers. You can test with either and decide to carry whatever you wanted later. You weren't restricted to one or the other anymore. That was about it. Have plenty of moon clips to not keep your class mates waiting

By the time my inexperienced classmates would 'load 4' or 'load 5', I was waiting patiently wishing I had brought a book. Most only had 1 magazine.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:When instructors renew and have to shoot, we shoot both revolvers and semi-autos. We can shoot the revolvers either single action or double action. Nothing was mentioned about DA/SA semi-autos, but I feel certain the same rule applied in terms of the first round fired.

Chas.

In the January instructor class we could shoot the revolver single action but we could not cock it until the target turned. It was still enough time. I took all my revolver shots single action.

DA semis had to be decocked. SA semis had to have safety on.

As I recall the instructors said this was their range requirement.

hovercat wrote: By the time my inexperienced classmates would 'load 4' or 'load 5', I was waiting patiently wishing I had brought a book. Most only had 1 magazine.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time with having published rules by DPS, and instructors being able to establish their own rules which go beyond the legal, published requirements. Once we let instructors establish their own rules, how far can they go?

RossA wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time with having published rules by DPS, and instructors being able to establish their own rules which go beyond the legal, published requirements. Once we let instructors establish their own rules, how far can they go?

The way I look at it, 'My Range, My Rules'. As long as I meet the scoring and timing requirements by DPS for the qualification, then I can require any measures necessary to make sure the students, range officers and myself are safe. If that means they have to qualify one student at a time, put safeties on and off, lay down guns between the single shots, etc, then it is OK.

Well, if that's the case, then you can also say that a student has to use certain brands of ammo, certain types of guns, certain types of eye and ear protection, etc., or else they don't pass the test.
I don't see where an instructor has that authority.
The state has set out certain rules that we have agreed to use as instructors. Those are the rules we should use.

RossA wrote:Well, if that's the case, then you can also say that a student has to use certain brands of ammo, certain types of guns, certain types of eye and ear protection, etc., or else they don't pass the test.
I don't see where an instructor has that authority.
The state has set out certain rules that we have agreed to use as instructors. Those are the rules we should use.

DPS (at their range) requires the use of SAAMI ammunition, and reloads are not allowed. This is not required of the instructors. Do you see this as an infringement, too?