Proficiency Demonstration and malfunctions

[rob777]

The Proficiency Demonstration Course of Fire states:

If any malfunctions are encountered, the shooter will work through the problem and finish the course of fire.
If rounds are held (not fired within the allotted time), the shots will be scored as misses.

Maybe I'm over thinking this but are the two statements linked with an 'or' or an 'and'?
Any input on how to interpret "will work through the problem and finish the course of fire"?

As an instructor how do you handle malfunctions during the qualification test?

Is the test a test of the student's ability to handle and fire the handgun?
Is the test a test of the quality of the gun and/or ammo?
Is it both?

[Erick Drake]

It is both! Good firearm with good ammo prevents issues and makes it an easier test to pass. I have had several students that had to work through failure to feed/fire/eject scenarios. One actually needed to reshoot with a different gun due to too many "misses" that were just never fired. This is another reason to require SAAMI approved ammo. Good ammo fails less.

[cbunt1]

It is all the above.

As an instructor, i signal start time and stop time for the shots to be fired.

If you get jammed up, and can't get your rounds off in the allotted time, they score as misses.

Its not as draconian as it sounds. You might miss out on one or two rounds downrange. We pause between sets, and fix the problem. Most times those two rounds aren't the difference between pass and fail.

Worst case, we reshoot. I usually have a gun you can use if yours fails. Not all instructors do, but we're here to qualify you, not to disqualify you.

I've never had to dq a student because of a gun that won't work, but I've had students determine that a particular gun isn't adequate for carry.

[parabelum]

It is both! Good firearm with good ammo prevents issues and makes it an easier test to pass. I have had several students that had to work through failure to feed/fire/eject scenarios. One actually needed to reshoot with a different gun due to too many "misses" that were just never fired. This is another reason to require SAAMI approved ammo. Good ammo fails less.

I'd also like to add that a Glock or H&K will be "slightly" more dependable, but that of course is just my opinion.

[AF-Odin]

I frequently carry Glocks and am quite comfortable with their reliability (with reasonable ammo). That said, had a relatively recent student with a Glock 42 and the cheapest steel cased ammo off the shelf. Student lost about 20 points due to failure to feed issues usually on the second or third round of the the five round scenarios. Switched to WWB (which I personally don't like as it cost me 5 points with a dead primer on my instructor qual) student had no further issues. Luckily for the student that only 4 rounds were not scoreable, still had more than the required 175 points. Think in the future I will require "name brand" brass cased ammo (though I do shoot steel cased in my AKs and even ARs-sometimes)

[troglodyte]

It is all the above.

As an instructor, i signal start time and stop time for the shots to be fired.

If you get jammed up, and can't get your rounds off in the allotted time, they score as misses.

Its not as draconian as it sounds. You might miss out on one or two rounds downrange. We pause between sets, and fix the problem. Most times those two rounds aren't the difference between pass and fail.

Worst case, we reshoot. I usually have a gun you can use if yours fails. Not all instructors do, but we're here to qualify you, not to disqualify you.

I've never had to dq a student because of a gun that won't work, but I've had students determine that a particular gun isn't adequate for carry.

This^^^

[The Wall]

I didn't read the other responses so please excuse if this is a repeat of what someone else has said.

When I went through the process each time with the same instructor he instructed us to lay the gun down on the bench pointing down range. Step back and raise your hand and either he or his assistant would clear the malfunction. So I'm guessing that knowing how to clear malfunctions is not part of the proficiency demonstration. I had two minor misfeeds the first time I went to the class. The first one I just tapped the magazine on my palm and it was fine. He saw me do it and just grinned. The second time I laid it down and he came over and corrected the problem. Didn't want to fail for not following instructions. Doubt that would have happened regardless. I was using my Beretta 96 Inox .40 S&W. For some reason it would occasionally misfeed on the last round. That's a topic for another time and place.

[cyphertext]

The first time I took the qualification test, I was using a Ruger P90. During the middle of the test, my slide would not go fully go into battery on it's own. I was bumping the back of the slide with my hand in between shots to get it to go into battery. Of course the the instructor noticed my peculiar shooting and after that course of fire, he paused and we stripped my pistol down and got it working correctly.

As stated above, the instructor was there to help me qualify, not disqualify me.

[mloamiller]

As stated above, the instructor was there to help me qualify, not disqualify me.

I just completed my LTC proficiency yesterday and will echo the statement that the instructors were there to help, not dq. During our course of fire, we stopped several times to allow a single shooter to re-shoot a specific sequence. On a couple of those occasions, I know the issue had to do with the moving targets malfunctioning due to the wind. However, I think some of them were to help a shooter who either misunderstood the instructions for that sequence, or didn't complete it for some other reason, such as some type of malfunction. I say that because I could see one or two of the instructors talking to the shooter and looking at the pistol before the re-shoot.

Even if a shooter failed to qualify, they had two more opportunities that day. As one of the instructors said "We're here until 5:00 anyway, whether someone is shooting or not."

Also, a big "Thank you" to the instructors at the DPS Training Facility. They did a great job.

[jmorris]

....
Also, a big "Thank you" to the instructors at the DPS Training Facility. They did a great job.

I'll second that.

[jb2012]

Do not even sweat the proficiency portion! IMO it's too easy but as stated above I'll save that for another day. Also like stated above most instructors are there to help not hurt at all. I had 2 times where either my thumb hit the slide release on the last round (most probable as I have huge hands) or my magazine didn't hold the slide open as it should (probably not as that would be much more repetitive to me) both times the instructors were absolutely fine with me pulling open my slide. There was one guy in my group that every time we shot he would immediately empty out all the shots loaded in his mag. I couldn't help but laugh but he still passed!

[BCGlocker]

Check out my inputs on thread 13 of viewtopic.php?f=18&t=80890

[jmorris]

And my after action is here. http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=82023&