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So this thread is for other instructors...

What is your criteria for failing a student. This mostly applies to the range porting of the class. Let's say a student successfully passed the range part. But during the test was unsafe, maybe pointed a loaded gun at you... Couldn't clear a malfunction without help... Had to get a bandaid for their thumb because they didn't listen to your instruction and kept their fingers crossed behind the slide...

This morning I had 5 students that already completed their online portion and was in the class for their range quals... We spent a little over an hour together as required going over questions, gun safety, range rules, how the test was going to go.. Yada, Yada..... Out of 5 students who all said they knew how to shoot, I failed 2 of them... Both scored well below the minimum 175 points which was an automatic fail anyway, and both were unsafe, one even pointed his pistol in my direction. Both myself and the RSO physically turned him around. Fortunately his pistol was jammed but still...

So what if during the test they did end up scoring 175 but still exhibited very poor and unsafe firearm handling... What do you do... If the one student who pointed his loaded (albeit jammed) pistol at me during the last 5 rounds at 25 yard part did that at the beginning I would probably just asked him to leave the range and would have talked to him afterwards...

Does the state give us the authority to fail a student even if he / she scores high enough on the test but is determined by us to be a danger ?

What say you?

For me, Range Safety is of utmost importance. I cover it quite extensively and students practice in the classroom with "Blue Guns." We discuss basic malfunctions and range commands. Pointing a firearm at anyone during the Demonstration of Proficiency would be an automatic DQ. Luckily, I have only had this happen once. After class finished, I provided additional instruction to that student and after going over and over drills with a "Blue Gun," I allowed the student a retry shoot which the student passed reasonably well. On another occasion, I had a student that I noticed was closing her eyes and turning her head prior to each round. The firearm remained pointed downrange, but at the three-yard line there were NO holes anywhere on the target. This happened with two rounds, and I removed her from the range. She declined further instruction and left the class.

As for band-aids for slide bite, I consider that a learning experience for the student as long as the muzzle stays where it is supposed to, and they have enough holes in the target in the right place. As for malfunctions, they will lose the points for rounds not fired on that stage, but I will RE-SHOW them malfunction drill before the next stage.

Couple of GOOD instances: Female student with a low-cut V-neck t-shirt had a piece of hot 9mm brass go you know where. She did what I called the brass dance, jumping up and down flapping her t-shirt to get it out. The whole time she kept her finger indexed and the firearm pointed down-range until she could safely set it on the table. Second instance was a student who had the ejected brass catch between her eye-pro and her eyebrow. She immediately released the magazine, cleared the firearm with slide locked back, placed it on the table pointed downrange and then dealt with the extremely uncomfortable situation. Result was a pretty nasty blister just next to her eyebrow. She only lost one round on that stage and after all was said and done, walked out with a score in the 230s.

In my introduction slide, I tell students that this is NOT a learn to shoot course and that they are expected to know basic range safety and firearms handling skills and if they do not, I offer an introduction to pistol shooting course. But you will always get the guy who shows up with the firearm still in the bag from Academy.

Agree with AFOdin. Failure to score and safety are why I fail students, although so far I've only had to give warnings. I do keep an eye out for crossed thumbs[1]. Malfunctions and such just cost points.

[1]Had an older guy a month ago that I noticed when we stepped up for the first round. Terrible grip and crossed thumbs. I pointed this out and he said it was how he'd been shooting since Jesus was a corporal. So, ok. No nicks and he shot 248.

jmorris wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 8:11 pm
since Jesus was a corporal.

My head is sore from nodding over and over reading y'all's posts... Even in my relativity short stint ( 2 years) as a LTC instructor I've already amassed quite a large amount of stories about students... And yes, the ones who walk in with a Glock and loose rounds in a plastic Walmart bag. The one's I have to cut the tie wrap off because they just came from the gun store. And I have sent quite a few home before the very first shot. I just let them know that due to my observing that they do not know the basics of even loading a magazine or how to remove the magazine from the gun that they would present a danger to themselves or others... I give them my card and most will call a few days later for a private training session....

Something I have noticed though. I do contract work for a national training company. They do a combination of in person classes at the Big Box stores like Bass Pro, Sheels. etc... and online classes. I do both the full in person class and the range quals for the online students... What I have overwhelming found this that it's very rare for me to have to disqualify a in person class student whereas the online students have a very high percentage that have absolutely no idea how to operate a handgun... Both the company and myself send out emails that VERY explicitly tell them that if they do not have any experience they will most likely fail the range quals.... Do they listen.... NOPE.... I have had range quals classes for the online students that I have failed over half of the class... Due to either not scoring high enough or I simply send home before they even start... I guess I really didn't need to ask the question in my firsts post as I realized I pretty much already knew the answer. I'll end this post with one of my more favorite student stories.

Guy comes in with a 1980's Llama 45. Almost rusted closed... I asked him if he maybe should go rent something as I wasn't very sure about his choice but he refused and wanted to use his gun.. I did a function test and everything seemed safe... Then we get to loading the first 5 rounds and I look at his ammo box.. This stuff was so old that there were spider webs all in the box of ammo... Again, I ask if he maybe wanted to go get new ammo at least.. He didn't... Well... as expected out of 50 rounds he got about 24 off due to malfunctions.... Oh it gets better.... He comes back again for my next quals class two weeks later and would you believe it... Same gun, untouched.... But he did have new ammo... I stopped him right there and told him either go rent a gun or I would not test him.... He did and can you imagine passed with over 200....