CHL Instructor Arrested for Selling CHL-100's

[seeker_two]

Seeker_two:

1) So I gather you're fine with instructors selling CHL-100's?
2) You'd be OK with a majority of, or all CHL instructors selling CHL-100's, instead of holding classes?
3) You believe, under those circumstances, when the state catches an instructor selling CHL-100's, it should just shrug it's shoulders, and state "No Harm, No Foul"?

I'd be fine with going to full Constitutional Carry or a CHL process where it doesn't take $200+ and months of waiting to get permission to practice a Constituional right to RKBA.....in some states, you can get your shall-issue CHL by going to the local police dept., filling out a form, and getting the CHL issued at that office.....imagine if you could get your CHL at the local DPS office instead of sending it in to an understaffed department in Austin....

I simply don't see any reason that Texas taxpayer money and prosecutorial time should be spent in pursuing this "crime" ......not unless one is OK with making sure that a money-making industry like CHL class instruction and DPS permit fees stay protected and ongoing......

So....how do YOU feel about Constitutional Carry?.....

[Bulldog1911]

Seeker_two:

1) So I gather you're fine with instructors selling CHL-100's?
2) You'd be OK with a majority of, or all CHL instructors selling CHL-100's, instead of holding classes?
3) You believe, under those circumstances, when the state catches an instructor selling CHL-100's, it should just shrug it's shoulders, and state "No Harm, No Foul"?

I'd be fine with going to full Constitutional Carry or a CHL process where it doesn't take $200+ and months of waiting to get permission to practice a Constituional right to RKBA.....in some states, you can get your shall-issue CHL by going to the local police dept., filling out a form, and getting the CHL issued at that office.....imagine if you could get your CHL at the local DPS office instead of sending it in to an understaffed department in Austin....

I simply don't see any reason that Texas taxpayer money and prosecutorial time should be spent in pursuing this "crime" ......not unless one is OK with making sure that a money-making industry like CHL class instruction and DPS permit fees stay protected and ongoing......

So....how do YOU feel about Constitutional Carry?.....

So...it's ok to break the law if you don't believe it should be the law?
I agree that there are too many restrictions on gun rights, but there are processes to change those. And guess what, until they change, it's the law. We as law-abiding citizens should respect that.

[seeker_two]

So...it's ok to break the law if you don't believe it should be the law?

Shall we ask that question of the Founding Fathers, Rosa Parks, or Dr. ML King Jr.?........

I agree that there are too many restrictions on gun rights, but there are processes to change those. And guess what, until they change, it's the law. We as law-abiding citizens should respect that.

...and that's why we also have the process known as "jury nullification"....which I wouldn't mind seeing invoked in this particular instance....

[Bulldog1911]

Shall we ask that question of the Founding Fathers, Rosa Parks, or Dr. ML King Jr.?........

Yes, and please let me know what they say

[Bulldog1911]

So...it's ok to break the law if you don't believe it should be the law?

Shall we ask that question of the Founding Fathers, Rosa Parks, or Dr. ML King Jr.?........

I agree that there are too many restrictions on gun rights, but there are processes to change those. And guess what, until they change, it's the law. We as law-abiding citizens should respect that.

...and that's why we also have the process known as "jury nullification"....which I wouldn't mind seeing invoked in this particular instance....

How would you like to have a doctor operate on you that didn't actually attend medical school, but he was given an M.D. from Harvard?
Sure he has no training, but he has the paper. And you just need a little heart bypass...

[seeker_two]

How would you like to have a doctor operate on you that didn't actually attend medical school, but he was given an M.D. from Harvard?
Sure he has no training, but he has the paper. And you just need a little heart bypass...

1. Is there a Constitutional guaranteed right for each of us to practice medicine?

2. Do you have to have a diploma, degree, or some documented certification in the English language or a religious seminary to practice your First Amendment rights? Do you have to have a law degree and Bar certification in order to exercise your Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights?

3. I'm still waiting for you to answer my first three questions.....

[Bulldog1911]

3. I'm still waiting for you to answer my first three questions.....

I believe loadedliberal answered your first three questions.

Either way, the issue is not whether it is fair to have to pay and go through training in order to get your CHL. The issue is that the law has been broken. The law says that the CHL class be taken and upon completion the instructor issue's the CHL100 form. Whether you like it or not, it's the law. There are a lot of laws that I don't agree with, but that does not give me(nor you, nor this guy) the right to break them.

[seeker_two]

3. I'm still waiting for you to answer my first three questions.....

I believe loadedliberal answered your first three questions.

Either way, the issue is not whether it is fair to have to pay and go through training in order to get your CHL. The issue is that the law has been broken. The law says that the CHL class be taken and upon completion the instructor issue's the CHL100 form. Whether you like it or not, it's the law. There are a lot of laws that I don't agree with, but that does not give me(nor you, nor this guy) the right to break them.

1. Let me rephrase.....I'm waiting for YOU to answer my first three questions....

2. I'm not arguing that the instructor broke the law.....I'm arguing that it's a waste of state resources and taxpayer money to go after him in a criminal case....much less have him serve time in a state prison on the taxpayer's dime. Revoke his instructor certification....great. Sue him for breach of contract.....great. But don't waste MY money on prosecuting him for something that shouldn't even be required for one to practice a Constitutional Right.....

Would you want to expend state resources and taxpayer money to prosecute and imprison someone who did the same thing with Defensive Driving courses?.....or would you just make sure that instructor was never certified to teach Defensive Driving in Texas again?......

[The Mad Moderate]

3. I'm still waiting for you to answer my first three questions.....

I believe loadedliberal answered your first three questions.

Either way, the issue is not whether it is fair to have to pay and go through training in order to get your CHL. The issue is that the law has been broken. The law says that the CHL class be taken and upon completion the instructor issue's the CHL100 form. Whether you like it or not, it's the law. There are a lot of laws that I don't agree with, but that does not give me(nor you, nor this guy) the right to break them.

1. Let me rephrase.....I'm waiting for YOU to answer my first three questions....

2. I'm not arguing that the instructor broke the law.....I'm arguing that it's a waste of state resources and taxpayer money to go after him in a criminal case....much less have him serve time in a state prison on the taxpayer's dime. Revoke his instructor certification....great. Sue him for breach of contract.....great. But don't waste MY money on prosecuting him for something that shouldn't even be required for one to practice a Constitutional Right.....

Would you want to expend state resources and taxpayer money to prosecute and imprison someone who did the same thing with Defensive Driving courses?.....or would you just make sure that instructor was never certified to teach Defensive Driving in Texas again?......

[/b][/b]

I do have a question or two on this crime.....

1. Who was victimized by the commission of this crime?
2. Why should taxpayer money be spent to prosecute this crime to the fullest?
3. Does the fact that some CHL holders did not attend the class yet have CHL's make the world a more dangerous place?

Thanks in advance for your answers....

1. all of us who went through the proper training
2. a crime has been committed and it should be punished
3. Yes. It's gives us all a bad name when something like this happens and having people out there without knowing if they could shoot or understand the law is dangerous for us all.

1. The state (as elected by the people) was wronged. The instructor voluntarily agreed with the state to do the classes and not just sell the CHL-100s. Said instructor violated that agreement. There should be ramifications, as agreed to when he/she became an instructor. If he/she doesn't like that, he/she shouldn't have become an instructor.

2. See above, the state reserves the ability to use taxpayer funds to prosecute people who don't comply with the law as created by the officials who were elected by the taxpayers who were willing to come out and vote. If the taxpayers don't want to foot this bill, they need to get out and vote for somebody who won't spend the money.

3. I used to think this wouldn't be dangerous, that is until I taught my first few classes. If somebody at my skill level were to buy a CHL-100 without actually taking the class, it's doubtful anything bad would happen. 99.9% of people don't know how to use a gun safely enough to handle it at the range, let alone in a defensive situation. There are also quite a few people out there with no idea about use of force laws.

He did already.

[seeker_two]

My apologies....I didn't know that loadedliberal and Bulldog1911 were the same person.....

[The Mad Moderate]

My apologies....I didn't know that loadedliberal and Bulldog1911 were the same person.....

WHAT may I ask are you talking about.

[seeker_two]

I'm waiting for Bulldog1911 to answer my first three questions....the ones that you already answered....

....apparently, he seems to think that he is you....

I know....he's got me confused, too....

[Crossfire]

Just a gentle reminder, personal attacks are not tolerated here.

So, just let it go.

[seeker_two]

Just a gentle reminder, personal attacks are not tolerated here.

So, just let it go.

No attacks made.....just questions awaiting answers.....

[PracticalTactical]

1. The state (as elected by the people) was wronged. The instructor voluntarily agreed with the state to do the classes and not just sell the CHL-100s. Said instructor violated that agreement. There should be ramifications, as agreed to when he/she became an instructor. If he/she doesn't like that, he/she shouldn't have become an instructor.

2. See above, the state reserves the ability to use taxpayer funds to prosecute people who don't comply with the law as created by the officials who were elected by the taxpayers who were willing to come out and vote. If the taxpayers don't want to foot this bill, they need to get out and vote for somebody who won't spend the money.

3. I used to think this wouldn't be dangerous, that is until I taught my first few classes. If somebody at my skill level were to buy a CHL-100 without actually taking the class, it's doubtful anything bad would happen. 99.9% of people don't know how to use a gun safely enough to handle it at the range, let alone in a defensive situation. There are also quite a few people out there with no idea about use of force laws.

1. Is the violation of a contract b/t a person and the "state" something that we should be handling in a criminal court and with the cost of utilizing the prison system?....or should contract law be left in the civil courts? And just how is the "state" a victim here?

2. Point taken and vote cast....and yet Perry, Dewhurst, and Co. still got reelected....

3. Again, do you have proof that any of the "bought" CHL's have done anything dangerous? And can you be certain that those who received these CHL's don't know safe gun-handling (which is more a case for NRA gun safety training than CHL training) or proper self-defense protocol?


My opinion: anyone who supports Constitutional Carry but is calling for this instructor's "punishment" really needs to look at the hypocracy of his/her position....

::Cracks Knuckles::

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a troll for now, but my patience is running thin.If your goal is to get us to be anarcho-capitalists, then you're going about it the wrong way. Coming along and rubbing our noses in our ideological impurities only pisses us off.

I happen to agree with anarcho-capitalism, but I'm also a realist. As much as you or I would like it, we don't live in Libertopia. We have rules and laws we're stuck following, no matter how bad they suck. Engaging in fraud is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Plus I highly doubt the instructor who sold the CHL-100s was doing this as a way to engage in non-violent civil disobedience against the "oppressive" gun laws of Texas. You can't pretend this person was some sort of Rosa Parks. He/she was just a sociopath looking to make a quick buck breaking the rules. In a libertarian or anarcho-capitalist society, this person would be the first to violate the non-aggression principle to make a quick buck off of others, and get shot dead doing it.

Even if this person was some sort of anarcho-saint, selling CHL-100s does nothing to advance "the cause" or deligitimize the rulers.