Instructors; Failing students

[jbarn]

Instructors; what, other than not shooting a passing score, would you or have you failed a student for? Besides shooting the instructor lol

Do you have a point where you simply tell the person to stop and fail them for say....inability to work the handgun, repeatedly? How about continued malfunctions? Negligent Discharges? Muzzeling someone, etc?

Are these standards different for you when handling groups as opposed to individuals?

[clarionite]

Instructors; what, other than not shooting a passing score, would you or have you failed a student for? Besides shooting the instructor lol

Do you have a point where you simply tell the person to stop and fail them for say....inability to work the handgun, repeatedly? How about continued malfunctions? Negligent Discharges? Muzzeling someone, etc?

Are these standards different for you when handling groups as opposed to individuals?

As an instructor, I don't fail a student. They can not reach the passing score in proficiency or written exam. If they are having issues being able to work the handgun, and don't fire enough rounds to reach the required score in the time allotted, then I'll work with them to address those issues before they're allowed to make another attempt to qualify. I've never had someone even come close to not reaching a passing score on the exam. And I'd take it as a personal failure if someone did. That would mean I hadn't covered the material well enough for them to understand, and had not noticed someone was struggling with the material that badly.

I would however remove someone from the firing line for a safety violation. But this wouldn't be me failing the student.

[jbarn]

Instructors; what, other than not shooting a passing score, would you or have you failed a student for? Besides shooting the instructor lol

Do you have a point where you simply tell the person to stop and fail them for say....inability to work the handgun, repeatedly? How about continued malfunctions? Negligent Discharges? Muzzeling someone, etc?

Are these standards different for you when handling groups as opposed to individuals?

As an instructor, I don't fail a student. They can not reach the passing score in proficiency or written exam. If they are having issues being able to work the handgun, and don't fire enough rounds to reach the required score in the time allotted, then I'll work with them to address those issues before they're allowed to make another attempt to qualify.

Isn't that a failure if they have to make another attempt?

I've never had someone even come close to not reaching a passing score on the exam. And I'd take it as a personal failure if someone did. That would mean I hadn't covered the material well enough for them to understand, and had not noticed someone was struggling with the material that badly.

I assume you are referring here to the written test. I should have been more clear, sorry. I have been teaching for a decade, and taught well over 1k students. I have not had anyone fail the written test, either.

I would however remove someone from the firing line for a safety violation. But this wouldn't be me failing the student.

Do you teach groups or individuals? Do you teach a range that takes care of sign ups, payments, classroom and the range?

I just recently moved from teaching 95% for ranges to 100% individuals and small groups where we go to the range just to shoot. I find these smaller groups much more conducive to working with students on the range.

I have had only a handful of people fail to qualify on the first attempt, and only one who did not pass on the second attempt. He happened to fail all three attempts. He received 2 private lessons between the first and second attempt from two different instructors. He just would not listen and take instruction.

[clarionite]

I assume you are referring here to the written test. I should have been more clear, sorry. I have been teaching for a decade, and taught well over 1k students. I have not had anyone fail the written test, either.

I guess it is. But I guess the distinction I'm making is that I wouldn't feel as if I were failing the student, and I would make sure the student were aware that it wasn't me. There is a baseline set by the state. I cover it multiple times in my material.

Do you teach groups or individuals? Do you teach a range that takes care of sign ups, payments, classroom and the range?

I just recently moved from teaching 95% for ranges to 100% individuals and small groups where we go to the range just to shoot. I find these smaller groups much more conducive to working with students on the range.

I have had only a handful of people fail to qualify on the first attempt, and only one who did not pass on the second attempt. He happened to fail all three attempts. He received 2 private lessons between the first and second attempt from two different instructors. He just would not listen and take instruction.

I mainly teach small groups. The largest so far was 18, and I used another RSO to help me keep an eye on things at the range. I really don't like groups that large, and I think in the future I'd split that into two classes.

The biggest issue I've seen so far has been people spending more for the box of ammo than for the gun. Cheap guns that are new and haven't been broken in aren't very reliable on the range. Students with these guns also seem to not understand that malfunctions are to be cleared and missed shots count against them per the rules handed down by the state. The few that I've had come close to failing have been for this reason. The course of fire is so simple that someone who's never fired a gun before could pass if they pay attention to the materials covered before hand.

[RossA]

Thankfully, I have never had a student fail either the written or proficiency portion of the class.
The closest I ever came was with a nice, older lady who just could not grasp the concept of FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. I had to continually warn her until I told her that one more warning and I would remove her from the range for safety reasons. She somehow managed to finish the course with no more warnings and passed, but I kept a VERY close watch on her, and on her trigger finger.

[texanjoker]

When I took the course in 07 there were people that should not have passed. They had know clue how to use their gun and were unsafe. They should have been kicked off the range after pointing guns at people. They were hand held through the shoot and passed. Now they don't even requal. Pretty scary to think they are carrying guns.

[TexasVet]

When I took the course in 07 there were people that should not have passed. They had know clue how to use their gun and were unsafe. They should have been kicked off the range after pointing guns at people. They were hand held through the shoot and passed. Now they don't even requal. Pretty scary to think they are carrying guns.

Except that many of those type get the chl so they can hang their certificate on the wall, look cool to friends, but never really carry.

[jbarn]

When I took the course in 07 there were people that should not have passed. They had know clue how to use their gun and were unsafe. They should have been kicked off the range after pointing guns at people. They were hand held through the shoot and passed. Now they don't even requal. Pretty scary to think they are carrying guns.

Except that many of those type get the chl so they can hang their certificate on the wall, look cool to friends, but never really carry.

I have to disagree. "Many of those type" showed up in renewal classes reporting that they carry.

[WildBill]

When I took the course in 07 there were people that should not have passed. They had know clue how to use their gun and were unsafe. They should have been kicked off the range after pointing guns at people. They were hand held through the shoot and passed. Now they don't even requal. Pretty scary to think they are carrying guns.

Except that many of those type get the chl so they can hang their certificate on the wall, look cool to friends, but never really carry.

I have to disagree. "Many of those type" showed up in renewal classes reporting that they carry.

That's an encouraging thought.

[kenobi]

At first I thought he was talking about academy classmates.

[TDDude]

I do "fail" students and warn the students that it could happen and probably will happen if they are not able to operate their pistol.

I don't hand hold. I don't load the mag or show them which end goes to the front. If I don't see enough holes on the paper, if they can't load their own gun, that's just how it goes.

As instructors, I think we have a duty to only let those who can operate their pistol pass the class.

Otherwise, why test at all?

The result is that many students decide to wait on the shooting test until they can either get help or work with me one on one. I then get a call and they just show up the next time I have a class.

I've never had a complaint that I know of.

[Abraham]

TDDude,

You're doing it right!

One of the men in my first class was a menace with a pistol and should not have been qualified. And yes, he was babied by the instructor.

I can certainly appreciate not wanting to face an unhappy paying customer, but should instructors really pass those who can't safely handle a gun, but yes, can pass the written and shooting requirements?

[WildBill]

I do "fail" students and warn the students that it could happen and probably will happen if they are not able to operate their pistol.

I don't hand hold. I don't load the mag or show them which end goes to the front. If I don't see enough holes on the paper, if they can't load their own gun, that's just how it goes.

As instructors, I think we have a duty to only let those who can operate their pistol pass the class.

Otherwise, why test at all?

The result is that many students decide to wait on the shooting test until they can either get help or work with me one on one. I then get a call and they just show up the next time I have a class.

I've never had a complaint that I know of.

I think we have a duty to only let those who can safely operate their pistol pass the class.

[cw3van]

I do "fail" students and warn the students that it could happen and probably will happen if they are not able to operate their pistol.

I don't hand hold. I don't load the mag or show them which end goes to the front. If I don't see enough holes on the paper, if they can't load their own gun, that's just how it goes.

As instructors, I think we have a duty to only let those who can operate their pistol pass the class.

Otherwise, why test at all?

The result is that many students decide to wait on the shooting test until they can either get help or work with me one on one. I then get a call and they just show up the next time I have a class.

I've never had a complaint that I know of.

I think we have a duty to only let those who can safely operate their pistol pass the class.

I've had to advise a few that until they could operate a firearm safely I could not place my signature on the CHL 100. I also teach private security officers have advised them I would not sign their training certificate which is tough because armed security make more than unarmed security. I refuse to sign a form that says someone can operate a firearm if they can't. Not trying to be hard just don't want someone getting themselves hurt or hurting an innocent bystander because they're unsafe.