HB-47 Maximum of 4 Hours?

[A-R]

Curious whether this proposal in Michigan http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/201 ... extra.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could be spun into a win-win for CHL holders in Texas ...

4 hours for "basic" CHL
10 hours for "advanced" CHL that allows carry in schools, sporting events, bars (if not intoxicated, of course), etc.

Just a radical idea for y'all to chew on

[TexasCajun]

So would those of us who have been issued CHL's under the current training requirement be granted the expanded carry or would we remain grandfathered into the curren carry provisions until renewal???

[AEA]

I would be one student that would not sign up for more than the minimum.

(maybe I already did this......LOL)

[TexasGal]

Curious whether this proposal in Michigan http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/201 ... extra.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could be spun into a win-win for CHL holders in Texas ...

4 hours for "basic" CHL
10 hours for "advanced" CHL that allows carry in schools, sporting events, bars (if not intoxicated, of course), etc.

Just a radical idea for y'all to chew on

I would go for the training if it allowed me to carry more places in a heartbeat even if we were not grandfathered. Anything that makes the anti's more comfortable and expands my carry rights is a win win. (within reason of course)
I wonder if that MI bill will pass now with the Sandy Hook tragedy.
Edit; Nevermind, I see that the gov vetoed it because of it. Sigh. I hope he does not regret that.

[1wise1]

Never underestimate the knee jerk reaction of a politician.

[DoubleActionCHL]

I'm a little surprised that so many instructors are in favor of the 4 hour class. I honestly don't see how it's possible to cover the DPS material effectively in 4 hours. I put on a solid 10 hour; no filler. All of the better instructors I work with feel much the same way. We put a lot into our classes and take this very seriously. I have no intentions of putting on a sub-par class. I hear the argument that we shouldn't require a license in the first place, so the training requirements should be minimal. I don't believe one has anything to do with the other. If we shouldn't require a license, then don't require a license. As long as one is required, why not do it right?

My students rarely complain about the length of the class. They always comment that they expected it to be boring, and it was anything but. Renewals comment that they learned more in my renewal class then they did in their full day CHL class. I firmly believe that reduced training requirements will translate to higher conviction rates among CHL holders.

[TexasGal]

I have asked some instructors and the consensus I am getting is they are concerned about the 4 hours. They feel 10 hours is too long, but 4 is way too short. I'm not criticizing, just passing that along. One whose expertise I respect immediately said it made it look like someone just wanted to be able to cram two classes a day in. I know that is not the reason this is being proposed, but that is what enters the minds of people as a motivation for that particular length. If it passes, any instructor could offer additional time to students to cover things more fully, it would just have to be optional and done after their CHL100 was completed and given to them. At least that is my understanding.

[carlson1]

I am not an Instructor nor do I think I could be one.

I look at this from a student who is very familiar with firearms and some knowledge of the Texas law. I do not see the need of ten hours course. I believe the four hour course is an excellent amount of time.

I have never understood the ten hour class. They should have read their material and already know the end and out of their firearms before class begins.

This is just to prove proficiently to begin with. Not boot camp.

They take pre-classes on the handbook. If unsure on a firearm then they are plenty of places to do that.

[TexasGal]

10 hours is definitely too long. People just can't easily absorb that much information in one sitting. It makes for a grueling class for everyone including the poor instructor who has to talk that long or do tag team teaching. But, there are an amazing number of students who come to class having zero knowledge of the laws or how to shoot a gun. It's those students you hope you can interest in staying after class for a while if we go with the 4 hours (which will include the range qual).

[infoman]

Carlson, you assume all new students are up to speed on laws & handguns, this is far from the truth. You have people applying for several reasons, & some barely know how to shot or operate their handguns. Many have never even glanced at a law book or have even the slightest knowledge of gun laws, etc. I agree with the previous posters that 4 hours is too short & is not good for the types of students who are coming in ill-prepared or applying for the wrong reasons. I'm very against HB 47 & very much for HB 383.

[carlson1]

Carlson, you assume all new students are up to speed on laws & handguns, this is far from the truth. You have people applying for several reasons, & some barely know how to shot or operate their handguns. Many have never even glanced at a law book or have even the slightest knowledge of gun laws, etc. I agree with the previous posters that 4 hours is too short & is not good for the types of students who are coming in ill-prepared or applying for the wrong reasons. I'm very against HB 47 & very much for HB 383.

Read my post. I said it is their responsibility to be read up. When I did my very first CHL class I read the book cover to cover before I have went to class. I was already two steps ahead on my pistol. Me and my wife spent three weekends so I could show her.

Ten hours is not enough time to take someone from zero to five much less ten. If they are serious they will do a lot prep work before they show up. Which in return make four hours plenty.

Carl

[jmra]

Carlson, you assume all new students are up to speed on laws & handguns, this is far from the truth. You have people applying for several reasons, & some barely know how to shot or operate their handguns.

Here is the problem IMHO. The CHL class was never intended to be nor should it be a handgun instruction class. If a student has no clue how to safely operate their firearm they should be given information on how and where to obtain that knowledge and rescheduled for a later date.
4 hours is more than adequate to review the laws and meet the basic requirements of the state. Materials/links are available for those who wish to become experts on the subject.

[infoman]

Right, but what about those that are not serious about it? Those that DON'T read up on stuff like you did? I'm worried about those folks who go out and buy a new gun the day before, never having shot a handgun in their lives. Those that have no knowledge of gun laws or even glanced at a law book or written materials. There's still people out there, believe it or not, that think they need a CHL just to keep a gun in their home. Many also don't know about having one in the vehicle either (PC 46.02). I get where you are coming from, I'm just saying I'd rather not "water down" the class for the new students like who I mentioned above.

[carlson1]

I understand what you are saying. I do t know the answers. May a remedial short bus class.

[Keith B]

Carlson, you assume all new students are up to speed on laws & handguns, this is far from the truth. You have people applying for several reasons, & some barely know how to shot or operate their handguns. Many have never even glanced at a law book or have even the slightest knowledge of gun laws, etc. I agree with the previous posters that 4 hours is too short & is not good for the types of students who are coming in ill-prepared or applying for the wrong reasons. I'm very against HB 47 & very much for HB 383.

As an instructor I believe that a properly conducted 4 hour class can get them the informaiton they need. These instructors that fill their time with war stories and even trying to sell legal services (not valid during class time, but they do it), could drop all of that and give theme the real meat of the informaiton.

Even in a 10 hour class you don't 'teach' a person to shoot who doesn't already now how. We can cover basic gun safety and laws within that period I believe.