Want to get your opinion on a student

[mayor]

We could use a red flag law.

Is this a joke?

I understand that LTC classes could go horribly wrong.

I just find it ironic that, on the one hand, most members of this forum are against "red flag laws", yet, on the other, that's what this thread seems to advocate. Preventing an individual from receiving a LTC won't keep said individual from owning a firearm. It seems, to me, that the closest thing Texas has is Health and safet code - in particular Chapter 573 and it is vague as to how it works.
Returning their fee for the class and telling them, politely, to hit the road seems like a good idea.
Either we are all free or none of us are free.
My .02
IANAL

[Tex1961]

We could use a red flag law.

Is this a joke?

I understand that LTC classes could go horribly wrong.

I just find it ironic that, on the one hand, most members of this forum are against "red flag laws", yet, on the other, that's what this thread seems to advocate. Preventing an individual from receiving a LTC won't keep said individual from owning a firearm. It seems, to me, that the closest thing Texas has is Health and safet code - in particular Chapter 573 and it is vague as to how it works.
Returning their fee for the class and telling them, politely, to hit the road seems like a good idea.
Either we are all free or none of us are free.
My .02
IANAL

I understand the all or nothing, however in this situation there are a few differences... Nobody is preventing this person from owning a firearm and with constitutional carry it's a non issue anyway. Also I'd like to think there is a bit of a difference between a blanket red flag where anyone could call and have your firearms removed without due process and a situation where your are taking a class to be LICENSED to carry a firearm, and a seasoned Licensed instructor who is actively observing both your skills, (or lake there of), failure to follow basic commands and overall a danger to themselves and others as observed. We as instructors have a duty to inform if we feel that a student may be a danger to themselves or others though action, or words.

[K.Mooneyham]

We could use a red flag law.

Is this a joke?

I understand that LTC classes could go horribly wrong.

I just find it ironic that, on the one hand, most members of this forum are against "red flag laws", yet, on the other, that's what this thread seems to advocate. Preventing an individual from receiving a LTC won't keep said individual from owning a firearm. It seems, to me, that the closest thing Texas has is Health and safet code - in particular Chapter 573 and it is vague as to how it works.
Returning their fee for the class and telling them, politely, to hit the road seems like a good idea.
Either we are all free or none of us are free.
My .02
IANAL

I understand the all or nothing, however in this situation there are a few differences... Nobody is preventing this person from owning a firearm and with constitutional carry it's a non issue anyway. Also I'd like to think there is a bit of a difference between a blanket red flag where anyone could call and have your firearms removed without due process and a situation where your are taking a class to be LICENSED to carry a firearm, and a seasoned Licensed instructor who is actively observing both your skills, (or lake there of), failure to follow basic commands and overall a danger to themselves and others as observed. We as instructors have a duty to inform if we feel that a student may be a danger to themselves or others though action, or words.

[rtschl]

We could use a red flag law.

Is this a joke?

I understand that LTC classes could go horribly wrong.

I just find it ironic that, on the one hand, most members of this forum are against "red flag laws", yet, on the other, that's what this thread seems to advocate. Preventing an individual from receiving a LTC won't keep said individual from owning a firearm. It seems, to me, that the closest thing Texas has is Health and safet code - in particular Chapter 573 and it is vague as to how it works.
Returning their fee for the class and telling them, politely, to hit the road seems like a good idea.
Either we are all free or none of us are free.
My .02
IANAL

I understand the all or nothing, however in this situation there are a few differences... Nobody is preventing this person from owning a firearm and with constitutional carry it's a non issue anyway. Also I'd like to think there is a bit of a difference between a blanket red flag where anyone could call and have your firearms removed without due process and a situation where your are taking a class to be LICENSED to carry a firearm, and a seasoned Licensed instructor who is actively observing both your skills, (or lake there of), failure to follow basic commands and overall a danger to themselves and others as observed. We as instructors have a duty to inform if we feel that a student may be a danger to themselves or others though action, or words.

I also agree with this. I do not support Red Flag laws because of their potential for abuse by anti 2A forces that is certainly to occur. The exception I would be willing to look at is only if tightly controlled on what constitutes a "Red Flag"; due process is not taken away; no immunity for the accuser or state; and the state has to pay the legal expenses of the person accused (attorney of their choice) since the state wants to remove a Constitutional right without conviction of a crime.

But when you have very Pro 2A people (firearms instructors) concerned that someone is careless, reckless, or dangerous etc. I am inclined to say we should listen and be concerned. And as stated above, this student's Constitutional rights have not been impacted by this action.

[philip964]

We shouldn’t forget that criminals with known bad intentions are free to carry where ever they want.

The LTC is a good guy card. Police and others will rely on it. Persons with questionable skill, mental problems or bad actors, should not be passed.

Face tattoos or deer in headlight eyes on this guy?

[Tex1961]

We shouldn’t forget that criminals with known bad intentions are free to carry where ever they want.

The LTC is a good guy card. Police and others will rely on it. Persons with questionable skill, mental problems or bad actors, should not be passed.

Face tattoos or deer in headlight eyes on this guy?

Deer in the headlight...

Just in casual conversation, myself, the other instructor and The RSO all got weird vibes from him. Things like talking about coming up from the border building Trumps wall, flashing me hand signals from the back of the room then mad at me because I don't know military hand signals.. Just enough weird, bragging, off-putting conversations and then top it off with failure to follow instructions multiple times... Failure to control his firearm in a safe manner. things like trying to put a round in the chamber with his finger on the trigger. Attempting to load his rounds backwards 3 different times. flagging everyone multiple times.. Then all mad and not understanding why he was asked to leave the range and then telling me that he should leave because he would probably disrupt my class.... 1+1+1+1+1 = No LTC for you today....

[AF-Odin]

Makes me glad that the majority of my students are active military, retirees, vets, or family members of those groups. They know to keep the booger hook off of the bang switch, how to clear a firearm (and inspect the chamber), and keep the firearm pointed in the safest direction possible.

[03Lightningrocks]

We shouldn’t forget that criminals with known bad intentions are free to carry where ever they want.

The LTC is a good guy card. Police and others will rely on it. Persons with questionable skill, mental problems or bad actors, should not be passed.

Face tattoos or deer in headlight eyes on this guy?

Deer in the headlight...

Just in casual conversation, myself, the other instructor and The RSO all got weird vibes from him. Things like talking about coming up from the border building Trumps wall, flashing me hand signals from the back of the room then mad at me because I don't know military hand signals.. Just enough weird, bragging, off-putting conversations and then top it off with failure to follow instructions multiple times... Failure to control his firearm in a safe manner. things like trying to put a round in the chamber with his finger on the trigger. Attempting to load his rounds backwards 3 different times. flagging everyone multiple times.. Then all mad and not understanding why he was asked to leave the range and then telling me that he should leave because he would probably disrupt my class.... 1+1+1+1+1 = No LTC for you today....

It almost sounds like someone pulling a video stunt to post on you tube. I am belly laughing at this story. Especially the flashing military signals from the back of the classroom. Are you sure you didn't get pranked....LOL. This just sounds too crazy to be real.

[Tex1961]

Makes me glad that the majority of my students are active military, retirees, vets, or family members of those groups. They know to keep the booger hook off of the bang switch, how to clear a firearm (and inspect the chamber), and keep the firearm pointed in the safest direction possible.

I'll Trade Ya....

My record so far is range failing 3 out of 5. 2 young ladies loading ammo backwards, I asked them politely to leave and told them they should get more training (both did and came back and passed) and the third regular fail from low score 150 points.
On average I do two range quals per month for online students and then 1 full blown in person class and range. The online students are the worst. On average I have 3 to 8 students per range test and fail 1 to 3 per class. The majority are asked to leave as they have no prior knowledge of firearms at all and think this is a training class even though they get multiple emails telling them that it is a qualifying test, not a training class. And during their pre flight briefing I tell them again in person that if they don't know how to load, unload, clear malfunctions safely and accurately handle a firearm that they should not take the test. Most just quietly sit there and then we hit the range and the truth comes out... But that's ok... $75.00 per hour for private lesson plus range fee's adds up each week...

[Tex1961]

We shouldn’t forget that criminals with known bad intentions are free to carry where ever they want.

The LTC is a good guy card. Police and others will rely on it. Persons with questionable skill, mental problems or bad actors, should not be passed.

Face tattoos or deer in headlight eyes on this guy?

Deer in the headlight...

Just in casual conversation, myself, the other instructor and The RSO all got weird vibes from him. Things like talking about coming up from the border building Trumps wall, flashing me hand signals from the back of the room then mad at me because I don't know military hand signals.. Just enough weird, bragging, off-putting conversations and then top it off with failure to follow instructions multiple times... Failure to control his firearm in a safe manner. things like trying to put a round in the chamber with his finger on the trigger. Attempting to load his rounds backwards 3 different times. flagging everyone multiple times.. Then all mad and not understanding why he was asked to leave the range and then telling me that he should leave because he would probably disrupt my class.... 1+1+1+1+1 = No LTC for you today....

It almost sounds like someone pulling a video stunt to post on you tube. I am belly laughing at this story. Especially the flashing military signals from the back of the classroom. Are you sure you didn't get pranked....LOL. This just sounds too crazy to be real.

So, the sad part is how close to correct you are... I can't even begin to explain how ridiculous it looked.. Imagine a 5 year old jumping up and down trying to get his moms attention because he has to go to the bathroom.... It took me a minute to two to figure out what this person was doing. we're doing our best every class to maintain at least some level of professionalism, but some people make it pretty hard....

[philip964]

We shouldn’t forget that criminals with known bad intentions are free to carry where ever they want.

The LTC is a good guy card. Police and others will rely on it. Persons with questionable skill, mental problems or bad actors, should not be passed.

Face tattoos or deer in headlight eyes on this guy?

Deer in the headlight...

Just in casual conversation, myself, the other instructor and The RSO all got weird vibes from him. Things like talking about coming up from the border building Trumps wall, flashing me hand signals from the back of the room then mad at me because I don't know military hand signals.. Just enough weird, bragging, off-putting conversations and then top it off with failure to follow instructions multiple times... Failure to control his firearm in a safe manner. things like trying to put a round in the chamber with his finger on the trigger. Attempting to load his rounds backwards 3 different times. flagging everyone multiple times.. Then all mad and not understanding why he was asked to leave the range and then telling me that he should leave because he would probably disrupt my class.... 1+1+1+1+1 = No LTC for you today....

flashing military hand signals from the back of the class. OMG.