LEOSA range qualification

[Tex1961]

Am I correct in that instructors are allowed to range qualify retired police officers. My understanding is that they are required to test yearly and we just issue the standard LTC range qualification test...

along with that, do we just need to sign their LEOSA form with our instructor name and number.. I'm assuming no LTC-8 or anything line that needs to be sent to RSD....

[Scott B.]

Correct, nothing needs to go to DPS.

[Tex1961]

Correct, nothing needs to go to DPS.

Thanks.... I thought so, but you all know about assuming

[skeathley]

The LEOSA qualification is vaguely defined. The LTC qualification fits the requirements, except for one thing: it requires a speed reload somewhere. I do that during the 2+3 string at the 7 yd line.

I suppose no one is checking up on that, but I am anal about doing everything exactly as prescribed. I learned that in the Army. Even with that, the qualification is embarrassing easy for a LEO, or should be.

[Excaliber]

Caution:

The information below that states all you have to do is pass the LTC range qualification with nothing needed from DPS is NOT correct if the officer retired from an out of state agency.

TCOLE (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement - part of DPS) has a process for issuing an annual firearms proficiency certificate to federal and out of state agency retirees. It includes the required course of fire, which can be supervised by any qualified LTC or LE firearms instructor. The form is located here.

[Tex1961]

Caution:

The information below that states all you have to do is pass the LTC range qualification with nothing needed from DPS is NOT correct if the officer retired from an out of state agency.

TCOLE (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement - part of DPS) has a process for issuing an annual firearms proficiency certificate to federal and out of state agency retirees. It includes the required course of fire, which can be supervised by any qualified LTC or LE firearms instructor. The form is located here.

Man, it’s kind of vague isn’t it. Timed reload doesn’t give an actual time limit, also it seems that as long an a minimum of 20 rounds beyond 7yards the rest can be at point blank range.

[srothstein]

Caution:

The information below that states all you have to do is pass the LTC range qualification with nothing needed from DPS is NOT correct if the officer retired from an out of state agency.

TCOLE (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement - part of DPS) has a process for issuing an annual firearms proficiency certificate to federal and out of state agency retirees. It includes the required course of fire, which can be supervised by any qualified LTC or LE firearms instructor. The form is located here.

Man, it’s kind of vague isn’t it. Timed reload doesn’t give an actual time limit, also it seems that as long an a minimum of 20 rounds beyond 7yards the rest can be at point blank range.

That is the rule for active officers also. The idea was to give a minimum standard and let each department decide what they wanted to emphasize themselves.

The interesting part is the timed reload but no time limit specified. TCOLE has a history of doing this type of rule for the same reason above. They require each officer to pass a physical exam and a psychological exam, but give no standards for what exam or what is passing. If the doctor is willing to sign the L2 or L3 form and meets the qualifications to sign it, passing is left up to their judgement.

And on a technical note, Excaliber, TCOLE is still an independent agency and not part of DPS at all. They got an extension on their last sunset review until the next legislative section and we will see what happens then. So far, all of the logical agencies (DPS and TDLR being the two most logical) have managed to avoid taking over the functions. The recent push to have TCOLE take over investigating complaints on officers has made it even more toxic to other agencies.

[Excaliber]

Steve, thanks for the clarification on TCOLE's status as an independent agency - didn't know that.

[howdy]

OK, I have been an Instructor since 2002 and I have never heard this. I have a retired Border Patrol Officer next door to me. What do I need to do to keep him qualified to carry a firearm. I looked at the forms. Do we fill all three in and if so, where do we send them. I saw one number to call for questions and another that looks like it might be a fax number. Does the Federal LEO get some type of form stating he has qualified or does his retired ID suffice? As you can tell, I am totally clueless on this. OK, I reread the posts and it seems the retired LEO with get a certificate from TCOLE. I still am not sure on the place to send in the required forms or what forms to send in.

[srothstein]

OK, I have been an Instructor since 2002 and I have never heard this. I have a retired Border Patrol Officer next door to me. What do I need to do to keep him qualified to carry a firearm. I looked at the forms. Do we fill all three in and if so, where do we send them. I saw one number to call for questions and another that looks like it might be a fax number. Does the Federal LEO get some type of form stating he has qualified or does his retired ID suffice? As you can tell, I am totally clueless on this. OK, I reread the posts and it seems the retired LEO with get a certificate from TCOLE. I still am not sure on the place to send in the required forms or what forms to send in.

This is the confusing part of the law. Under federal law (18 USC 926c), the state laws do not apply to a retired officer who has a retired ID card and proof of qualification within the past year. The qualification must be from a person who is licensed to qualify active duty officers using the standard referenced above. The federal law says the weapon must be concealed and the officer must obey any restrictions on private property and parks/schools/etc. I will be honest and say that I do not think a Texas peace officer would give any qualified retired officer a hard time about any of this, even if it was a minor technical breach of the law in most cases.

State law, PC section 46.15(a)(5) gives certain other benefits. It makes 46.02 and 46.03 completely non applicable for retired officers, just as it does for active officers. This law requires that they hold a certificate of proficiency under Occupation Code section 1701.357 and an ID card issued by a federal, state, or municipal law enforcement agency. This, based on TCOLE rules, lets an LTC instructor qualify him IF he sends the form to TCOLE with his application for their retired officer ID. The officer must send in page 1 of the form filled in by him, along with page 2 of the form filled in and signed by you. The first time he does this, he is required to send in page 3 of the form to get a Texas PID number issued. The PID is the TCOLE internal system tracking ID number that every person in the system gets issued so they no longer keep records based on social security numbers. If he has a TCOLE PID, then page 3 is not necessary.

[Excaliber]

The forms are sent to the address at the top of the first page of the form. A passport photo is required for the first application.

The card will expire at the end of the month it was issued in. Renewals are processed quickly, generally within 3 weeks. To prevent a possible gap in valid dates, it's best to file for the renewal a month before expiration.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Now I'm confused. It is my understanding that a retired Texas peace officer must 1) get retired credentials from his last agency; and 2) shoot an annual qualification course with a police agency, not an LTC instructor. Am I mistaken?

Chas.

[Greybeard]

Excaliber is actually the one who told me about the process several years ago. I qualified him back then and many other since. I forget the name of the DPS instructor, but one sent me a suggested course of fire. I posted it on the wall in the range and have been using it ever since. It requires the first 20 rounds to be one handed. And a timed reload: 5 + 5 in 25 seconds. (duh!). Page 2 of the form is the only one where an instructor signs off. And there is a box to check and insert "CHL" instructor number. A few years ago, the semi-vague course of fire referenced on the form required shooting at least 5 "duty" rounds. The more recent form dropped that.

While I have done the shooting portion and paperwork for predominantly officers who served out of state, I recall at least 2 DCSA members who retired from local departments. They told me the Denton County SD range was too busy to fool with them at the time and I have done their quals at least twice each in the past few years - with no feedback of any issues from Austin.

A good article on the subject is https://www.policemag.com/342465/unders ... on-process

[srothstein]

Now I'm confused. It is my understanding that a retired Texas peace officer must 1) get retired credentials from his last agency; and 2) shoot an annual qualification course with a police agency, not an LTC instructor. Am I mistaken?

Chas.

That is the rule for a retired Texas police officer. The main discussion here was for out of state and Border Patrol officers who retired. Their best bet is to go through TCOLE for the ID card but they can get by with a retired ID card and proof of qualification.