TexasCHLforum.com

Hello everybody I wish my first post could be on a lighter note but its not. I got pulled over on 259 in Longview for speeding about 3:30 pm by the dps about two weeks ago. As soon as the officer was informed I had a CHL he said "with out reaching for it where is the gun." I told him I had two pistols in a case in the back passenger side of the truck. He said would you mind exiting the vehical as I look at them, I agreed. As he walked me back to the rear of the truck he said he had to look at them for his safety??? and asked if they were loaded which I replied no sir. He walked up on the driver side in which I said its on the passenger side sir. He said that he would reach over to look, I am pulled over on a overpass on the right side but whatever. I have been sitting on an overpass bridge wall for 20mins. while he "looks at my guns" he then walks back and starts asking what am I doing with them I told him I was going to the range but was to cold out so I was going home. He then proceded to ask me where I got the guns how much they were and everytime I gave him a answer he would give me that cop double talk at which point I said this is what I am doing and just shut up he then replied are you one of those gun nuts with a straight face and I said not really. He gave me a ticket for speeding I got into my truck only to discover he searched my truck! I am feeling very violated about this in 30 years I have only been given 3 tickets for speeding nothing else. Had I not told him about the guns he would just had givin me the ticket which is why I got a CHL to avoid this. Everyone tells me to just forget about but I feel its not right! Am I the only one?

Welcome eastexas. Sorry to hear about your stop with DPS. You live there and probably already know that 259 is the Drug Highway. They cannot search without your permission, probable cause (areas in your reach) and an "inventory search" (after arrest). Most people think they have to give permission, but you can say NO to the search. You driving a truck everything is pretty much "in your reach." Maybe your next encounter will not be as bad.

So if I get pulled over again I can refuse a search? Then what will happen I am told it will be more trouble than its worth? Also do you think I should get the troopers sergent or somebody involved even though I think he will just blow me off or what? I am not looking for trouble far from it, but when LEO crosses the line into my rights something needs to be done or said right?

easttexas wrote:...He said would you mind exiting the vehical as I look at them, I agreed...

Like it or not, it appears you gave him permission to search your truck.

easttexas wrote:So if I get pulled over again I can refuse a search? Then what will happen I am told it will be more trouble than its worth? Also do you think I should get the troopers sergent or somebody involved even though I think he will just blow me off or what? I am not looking for trouble far from it, but when LEO crosses the line into my rights something needs to be done or said right?

Yes you can and should refuse a search (rights not used are lost MY OPINION). I would not take this any further because I do not see anything the Trooper did that was wrong (maybe bad attitude).

KRM45 wrote:

easttexas wrote:...He said would you mind exiting the vehical as I look at them, I agreed...

Like it or not, it appears you gave him permission to search your truck.

So you told him to shut up, and you are complaining about him? There are 2 sides to every story, I bet the Troopers is a little different.


A LEO does not need your permission to conduct a Terry search of your vehicle. Nor does he need permission to conduct a search if he has probable cause that contrband might be in the vehicle (Carroll vs US)

Please explain how you think the trooper "crossed the line".

If you feel the trooper acted improperly write a polite letter of complaint stating your issues to Col. Davis, the head guy at the DPS.

You can be sure your complaint will be investigated and you will get a reply.

FWIW

Chuck

easttexas wrote:So if I get pulled over again I can refuse a search? Then what will happen I am told it will be more trouble than its worth? Also do you think I should get the troopers sergent or somebody involved even though I think he will just blow me off or what? I am not looking for trouble far from it, but when LEO crosses the line into my rights something needs to be done or said right?

txinvestigator wrote:So you told him to shut up, and you are complaining about him?

I think you're misreading something, although it wasn't written very clearly: "at which point I said this is what I am doing and just shut up".

There's an implied, "and I just shut up" there.

Kevin

txinvestigator wrote:So you told him to shut up, and you are complaining about him? There are 2 sides to every story, I bet the Troopers is a little different.


A LEO does not need your permission to conduct a Terry search of your vehicle. Nor does he need permission to conduct a search if he has probable cause that contrband might be in the vehicle (Carroll vs US)

Please explain how you think the trooper "crossed the line".

I believe the gentleman meant that HE did not respond any further to the troopers questioning: "everytime I gave him a answer he would give me that cop double talk at which point I said this is what I am doing and just shut up he then replied are you one of those gun nuts" .
I know its reads a little differently.


Too, even though the trooper may have the right to ask questions (in hopes of discovering a stolen gun, etc) there is a "high end" to this kind of thing. At some point, it becomes badgering.


Edit: You beat me by a few seconds Kevin, you 'ol quick draw you!

NO SIR, I was stating I was answering his questions but with the "double talk" after I gave him my information I was just digging a hole to no where. I was the one that shut up. I would also like to add from the begining of the stop til I left the officer was less than polite. I didnt want to tell this because I didnt want to give the wrong impression about my motives, the 20min. wait while getting searched was the motivation.

easttexas wrote:NO SIR, I was stating I was answering his questions but with the "double talk" after I gave him my information I was just digging a hole to no where. I was the one that shut up. I would also like to add from the begining of the stop til I left the officer was less than polite. I didnt want to tell this because I didnt want to give the wrong impression about my motives, the 20min. wait while getting searched was the motivation.

OK.

Again, there are 2 sides to this, and with only hearing yours I am not going to second guess the trooper.

IMO, your rights were not violated; however, if it makes you feel better file a complaint. I imagine the stop was recorded. That should present the facts to his Sgt.

Yep,

There are always two sides to a story...

And since our new member here has been driving for about 30 years and only recieved 3 citations in that time frame, I am sure he is above the curve for "not" having a chip on his shoulder in regards to confrontations with law enforcement...

I guess in the way it was written, I am not sure who exactly it was who said to the other to "shut up"...Not that it really matters...All in all a very antagonistic and uncharacteristic way to say anything to anyone in law enforcement...Not a good way to keep the stop on an even keel...

But...

I am not sure why firearms have to be "looked" at (in this case, 20 minutes, to which I figure it only takes about a few seconds per firearm for whatever reason) in the first place...Maybe someone could give me the scoop on that...Honestly if I can understand that, I believe I have proven myself to be very amiable in understanding the concept as a whole...

I have never in ten years of carrying in Texas, ever given a reason or have been given the "Nth" degree by anyone in law enforcement for having a "gun" on my person...It has never been an issue, nor a reason to search my vehicle, or be disarmed during 7-8 times I've been pulled over for having a bit of a heavy foot in that time...

I know I can be a bit annoying in this regard, but I feel compelled to respond to things like this because I do not think we ever get the full clear story, because I honestly believe we ALL stand to learn from every incident like this...

And I would rather hear things from current and former Law Enforcement folks on this website than anyone else...Just because I know they understand where we (I am) are coming from...

I guess what I wanted was a "yes that is not right and report him!" or a "sorry that happened but he can legally do that, live with it!" I also want to know if this is the about the norm as it is my first encounter since having a CHL.

Excuse me if I am wrong, but I thought that one of the conditions of being liscensed and having a CHL was that you basically gave up the right to say no to a search.

Maybe I got bad info at one of my training classes but again if this is wrong, I would like to have the correct information for future stops. Not that I would have a problem, I have been stopped a few times and no officer has ever asked to search my vehicle or given me an actual ticket.

I would just like clarification on CHL's and whether we can still refuse a search.

carlson1 wrote: Yes you can and should refuse a search (rights not used are lost MY OPINION).

txinvestigator wrote:A LEO does not need your permission to conduct a Terry search of your vehicle. Nor does he need permission to conduct a search if he has probable cause that contrband might be in the vehicle (Carroll vs US)

Either I am reading this wrong, or we have 2 different opinions here.

The question, as I see it, is this: I get pulled over for speeding, I inform the officer that I have a CHL and a handgun in the vehicle. If he wants to search my vehicle, based only on that information, does he have the right to do so?