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Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:38 am
by gemini
Sorry this post is rather long winded. I have obviously left out some details etc to protect the innocent….
On March 2nd we attended a high school basketball playoff game. It was 11:00pm
before we got home. My wife was tired, so Son #2 and I dropped her off at home and we went
to IHOP for a late night snack.
Around 12 midnight we returned home. As we turned the corner we noticed the dome light
inside Son #2’s car was lit. (Son #2 had parked his car on the street). As we pulled up next to it,
we realized someone was inside the car stealing/vandalizing etc.They were kind of laid across
the front seat. We were in my truck, so I was actually looking down on the top of a blue baseball
style hat the guy was wearing.
We both exited the truck, the guy saw us and started to bolt (east) up the street. I asked him in
no uncertain terms to please stop (I'm not sure exactly what words I used but I think they might
have been not too nice). I had drawn my pistol and had it in a one handed, low-ready position while chasing him. He partially turned toward me, he had something in his hands, when he turned I couldn't tell if it was a knife, screwdriver or what and I immediately pulled my gun up and fired, from about waist high.
I was still moving when the shot was taken. I did not hit him. I believe the round landed about 1 foot to his right in the parkway grass. Needless to say, I have never seen a man run that fast before. I stopped, placed my left hand into full grip, raised the weapon and had my night sights aimed square in the middle of
the fleeing mans back. He was about 45 ft from me at this time. I did not fire the second shot. Not that it wasn’t legal, not that I didn’t have a clear shot,but in that absolute fraction of a second I decided no.
Son #2 entered our house to check on Mom and grab his car keys. I jumped into the truck and tried to catch up with the
running man. As always, whenever you pull or fire a weapon, immediately call 911 and make a report.
I did that as I was driving. I gave the operator a description of our car, location etc, a description
of the low life scum bag and the direction he was headed the last time I saw him. Plus, I have a CHL
and I did fire a shot at the man etc. The operator asked what I was wearing and to make sure my weapon
was secured before the police arrived. I had already reholstered so that was no problem.
I never found the bad guy. However, within 3-5 minutes I had about 4 black & whites racing through our neighborhood.
They caught him 1 street over. He told the police that "some guy just shot at me!” Stoooopid.
He was taken to jail. Crime scene dusted the car for prints. Detective will be calling us.
The police that came were extremely nice. They did disarm me, (After talking for 15 minutes), and got the make, model and serial # off my gun. The officer was not concerned, almost an after thought for his report.
The gun was returned and all is good. They did not freak out because I had a gun. In fact when the officer started
to reach for it I asked him (since I'm not a fan of someone else drawing a loaded 1911 out of my holster) if it was
OK if I took the whole thing out, holster and all. He was good with that and I'm thankful. When finished, the officer handed gun, magazine and holster all back to me.
I guess everything turned out good. No one was injured. Minor property damage, minor property loss. I think we
surprised him just as he was getting started on his night of crime. Maybe we stopped him from ruining someone else's property/car etc.
We found out today the BG has a lengthy record for similar crimes, has done time, violated parole
etc etc. with the priors this will be bumped up and even if plead out he will be doing real time, again.

Here’s what I have learned from this experience. Maybe it can help someone else:
1. Wearing a tuckable holster or a smart carry holster would have been completely
useless in this situation. (I am forced on occasion to use a tuckable).
2. Fear never entered into the equation. This is not a macho statement, fact. When I exited
my truck I had what best could be described as “tunnel vision” or complete concentration
on the BG. My eyes never left him. I moved across a street, up a curb and part way over
a grass parkway and never looked down for footing.
3. I would not have fired if the BG had not turned and just kept running. His mistake.
There was no hesitation when he turned and my eye caught whatever was in his hand
(reflection). There was no thought process etc, I swept the safety (1911), raised the barrel
got a shot off as fast as I could. Really, happened instantaneously.
4. If I ever am in pursuit or a similar situation again, I will have both hands in correct
shooting position and the weapon will be in a ready position. Not low ready. Not
carried with one hand.
5. There was no shaking, no inability to operate controls ie safety etc. Sight picture was steady.
6. After I re-entered the truck to give chase and call 911….. I realized I was breathing
like I had just run a 100 yd dash! Made it a bit difficult to talk but the operator was calm
and I was able to give her everything she asked for, info. By the time I made the block
my breathing was normal.
7. I had re-engaged the safety and re-holstered without thinking. I honestly do not remember
doing either.

Here is what Son #2 and I, through discussion and partial re-enactment realized.
From the time I exited the truck: the entire episode lasted probably 3 SECONDS, maybe 4
at the most. (excluding the call to 911 and driving around the block).

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:26 am
by Beiruty
Let me be the first to congratulate you on your decision not fire the second shot.
1) The first shot was intuitively shot in response to perceived threat of deadly force that maybe used against you
2) You hold on the second shot, because the threat is no more. You selected the correct choice. IMHO, the second shot would have landed you in great trouble. I am not a lawyer but, you may not have been found guilty but the cost would extremely high.
3) You were running under an adrenaline dump, no question about it. You just described it correctly, tunnel vision, heavy breathing, fast response, etc. You were in full control because of your training and not because you were acting normally (no adrenaline dump).
4) It is lesson for all of us to study and learn from. This is one of very few real story of deployment of deadly force in an incident mentioned on this board.

Good to hear no was hurt and the loss is just minor.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:32 am
by RPB
Thank you for the account and details. :thumbs2: :tiphat:

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:27 am
by lonewolf
Your account is much appreciated and worthy of study/consideration. Despite the short time frame, you did everything in the right order. One exception to this might be the consideration that chasing the guy from your vehicle could have made you an ambush target, since driving/chasing/keeping eyes peeled is a lot of distraction. While I agree with all your other actions, I respectfully submit that I would have stayed with house/loved ones rather than give chase.

All things considered, great actions on your part, and great response on part of law enforcement, well and professionally handled by all!

Please rest assured that my thoughts on the following of the BG are not a slam in any sense of the word, just an after action thought. Hindsight is always 20/20, but we don't live in the past, we just prepare for the future.

Great job and great outcome!

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:36 am
by RoyGBiv
RPB wrote:Thank you for the account and details. :thumbs2: :tiphat:
+1.. First hand accounts are always useful for "what would I do" consideration. Thanks for sharing. :tiphat:

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:01 am
by baldeagle
gemini wrote:Here’s what I have learned from this experience. Maybe it can help someone else:
1. Wearing a tuckable holster or a smart carry holster would have been completely
useless in this situation. (I am forced on occasion to use a tuckable).
Would you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why you are saying this. I wear a tuckable holster and have no option but to keep it tucked, so I'm interested in your thought process.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:18 am
by A-R
I also thank the OP for posting this so we all can learn. In that spirit, I ask these questions not to be argumentative but to truly understand reasoning, thought process etc.

Why did you chase the guy? Were you hoping to recover some stolen property? Were you chasing him away from your home? Was it an adrenaline dump, no cognitive thought?

Devil's advocate might say "If you hadn't chased him, there would be no need to fire that round" ... furthmore, if that missed round HAD hit something of value, a person, a pet, a car, a house ... then you'd be in a world of trouble.

Again, asking these questions in the spirit of learning - not to paint the OP or his decisions/actions in a bad light.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:16 pm
by OldSchool
Excellent account, and well done! I also wonder about your comment on the tuckable. Sounds as if you're saying that the tuckable would have taken too long to draw.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:52 pm
by gemini
I am having to do " Honey Do's" today so I will be on and off line during the day.
Will try to answer without quoting every single question.

The thought of ambush entered my mind the next night. Not during the event.
Son #2 is 18yo and a big ol' boy, not fat. He had taken a position behind me
out of line of possible fire. Though not currently able to carry, he hunts, shoots, and is
very familiar with firearms and safety issues. Might have been a mistake, but,
all I can rationalize now is; he had my back, so to speak.

If you've ever had your house burglarized, your truck tool box completely emptied,
parts stolen off your vehicle etc etc etc. then you know how violated you feel and the
anger attached to that invasion of your personal space and loss of property you've busted
your hump to earn/pay for. I've had all the above happen.
I guess the reason for the chase is a great arm chair quarterback question. The only answer I can
honestly give is 1. anger 2. maybe I responded like a greyhound track dog after the rabbit, instinct
3. I feel invason of my personal property and home is more of a serious issue than you/others and
I'm willing to defend it 4. There was no "thought" or hesitation, I just gave chase.
I'm not saying running in the house, calling the police, and waiting is wrong. But, we each must decide what line
we will not allow others to cross. I've made my decision and stand by it.

Tuckable. I am a rather big guy. I wear shirts with the "T" designation. The shirts all have long shirt tails.
I usually have a folded up wad of material "tucked" into my tuckable holsters. It takes time to lift the shirt
completely clear of the grip, get a full secure grip and pull it from under the shirt. Sometimes I have to pull
twice to get the material clear. Maybe your situation is different. As I said, I too wear a tuckable sometimes.
For me it's a better than nothing mode of carry. The smartcarry...... well, the thought of some guy yelling
"stop" while reaching down the front of his pants, slipping a hand into his shorts.... I'm not going there.

Thanks for all the support guys. As case related info becomes more available I will try to update.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:01 pm
by steve817
The OP said he had his gun drawn, my question is drawn from what? I'm guessing not a tuckable holster. Glad everything turned out OK. Hope for the BG's sake he was wearing his brown pants.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:29 pm
by McKnife
Maybe I missed it since the screen on my phone is small... but where did this take place? What city?

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:41 pm
by gemini
I was using a IWB holster. Nick Matthews leather maker. I had on a untucked T-shirt.
City was Dallas, with DPD responding. My street, which I will not be posting.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:21 pm
by Keith B
Glad it worked out for you in this case. IMO you were well within your rights to shoot when he turned back and you felt threatened. And, since you missed there was nothing other than a scared bad guy to say you shot at him after he was breaking into your car, the police had info to what had gone down and you got to sleep in your own bed.

Now, had you actually shot and killed the guy, this would have thrown a whole new scenario into the mix. You now would more than likely be taken into custody, the weapon confiscated, and you would be requiring a lawyer and a lot of time during the post shooting investigation. Then, if the DA decides the shooting isn't as clear cut as it should be, due to only one side of story being able to be told, you might be charged. At minimum they would still refer it to a Grand Jury to hopefully get no-billed.

So, just remember that a few inches of difference in bullet trajectory can cost you a ton of time, money and emotional stress until you are cleared.

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:48 pm
by lonewolf
Again I would like to thank the OP for initiating this thread and everyone's ability to discuss this from a learning/understanding perspective. This gave my wife and I an opportunity to further our discussions on the matter of concealed carry and the varied responses to situations that may arise. :patriot: :txflag: :cheers2:

Re: Shot Fired

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:58 pm
by A-R
gemini wrote:If you've ever had your house burglarized, your truck tool box completely emptied,
parts stolen off your vehicle etc etc etc. then you know how violated you feel and the
anger attached to that invasion of your personal space and loss of property you've busted
your hump to earn/pay for. I've had all the above happen.
I guess the reason for the chase is a great arm chair quarterback question. The only answer I can
honestly give is 1. anger 2. maybe I responded like a greyhound track dog after the rabbit, instinct
3. I feel invason of my personal property and home is more of a serious issue than you/others and
I'm willing to defend it 4. There was no "thought" or hesitation, I just gave chase.
I'm not saying running in the house, calling the police, and waiting is wrong. But, we each must decide what line
we will not allow others to cross. I've made my decision and stand by it.
Gemini, I GREATLY appreciate your honesty :tiphat: I wouldn't necessarily do the same thing, but I can better understand why you did and believe you were perfectly within your rights to do so and do not begrudge your choices.
Keith B wrote:Now, had you actually shot and killed the guy, this would have thrown a whole new scenario into the mix. You now would more than likely be taken into custody, the weapon confiscated, and you would be requiring a lawyer and a lot of time during the post shooting investigation. Then, if the DA decides the shooting isn't as clear cut as it should be, due to only one side of story being able to be told, you might be charged. At minimum they would still refer it to a Grand Jury to hopefully get no-billed.

So, just remember that a few inches of difference in bullet trajectory can cost you a ton of time, money and emotional stress until you are cleared.
These are wise words from Keith. And probably would be running through my head before I chased after a "bad guy".

God bless America and Texas for honoring our right and freedom to chose the reaction to crime that best fits each of us individually :patriot: :txflag: