LEOs and Off-Duty Carry Question

[UpTheIrons]

A maybe-not-so-odd question, since it sorta meets the "contacts" part of the forum:

MUST off-duty officers ALWAYS carry their duty gun?

That is, must they, by law, always carry - on duty and off? Or is it left to the individual officer's or department's discretion? I got into a discussion with my father in law a while back on this topic and didn't have a definitive answer. He saw an off duty officer at HEB with his gun on (and in plain clothes). He didn't see a badge (but it must have been there, right?) but he assumed - correctly - that this was a peace officer. He was shocked that he was carrying his gun out of uniform. He assumed that when the uniform came off, so did the gun.

[seamusTX]

Penal Code 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to commissioned peace officers. They can carry openly or concealed, in uniform or not, on the clock or not.

They are not legally obligated to carry. However, department policy may dictate what they do when not on duty.

BTW, there are a few other positions in Texas that are authorized to carry the same as LEOs: mainly judges and criminal district attorneys.

- Jim

[cbr600]

deleted

[srothstein]

There is some interesting debate on this issue, even in the law enforcement community. Clearly the law says the officer can carry when on or off duty. Departments may make up their own regulations, though few require it anymore. San Antonio PD used to require their officers to carry when off duty in their city, based on another law. This went away when CHL's came into effect. The problem was the law banning people from carrying with their CHL also applied to off duty officers for the first two years. Six Flags Corporation tried to ban cops from carrying in their parks. San Antonio reacted by making the carry optional with a recommendation to carry. Houston PD reacted by saying their off duty cops would obey Six Flag's wishes, and since they were not armed, the off duty officers could no longer work security jobs there. Can you guess which one changed the minds of the Six Flags managers?

The other law in question is whether or not an officer is ever off duty. There is a law in the Code of Criminal Procedure that requires an officer to take action to stop or prevent a crime that is occurring in his presence or view in his jurisdiction. If you are in the city that employs you, are you ever off duty then? But I do know some cities actually ban officers from carrying off duty. So how are they supposed to take action?

You can see where the debates go from here. Add in the officers who think their department rules apply to everyone from any department and it can be as bad a mess as trying to understand any other set of laws.

[camlott]

I have several close friends with our local department. It is department policy that they have a gun "accessible" to them at all times (on or off duty). They tell me that many of the guys who have been around a long time leave their gun in the car. All the ones I am friends with carry ALL the time (concealed, unless on duty obviously).

[UpTheIrons]

Did he look like the gentleman on the right?

Why, is that you?
I'll have to ask him if the shirt looks familiar.

[UpTheIrons]

Now, counselor, if I may ask a follow up question...

Off-duty carry, as y'all have said, is not the law, but generally encouraged. Is that off-duty carry supposed to be open or concealed, or is there no definitive answer, i.e., either is OK?

As to judges and criminal defense attorneys, are they to carry open or concealed? I suppose concealed, to avoid confusing them with the LEO contingent. GC 411.198 to 411.201 seems to say only concealed, (since that's the part of the statutes dealing with CHL) so I'm supposing they move among us CHLers.

Just trying to narrow down who the guy was that so startled my father-in-law. He's slowly coming around, BTW, but he just can't understand why his sweet, sweet daughter wants an AR to go along with her 1911!

[Beiruty]

LEO will carry concealed or open with visible badge when off duty. My next door was Sr. Engineer but a part time volunteer Peace officer with our county sheriff Department. He carried concealed and he does not care about 30.06 even at work.

[Target1911]

Don't forget that some LEO positions are plain clothes

[gemini]

Now, counselor, if I may ask a follow up question...

Off-duty carry, as y'all have said, is not the law, but generally encouraged. Is that off-duty carry supposed to be open or concealed, or is there no definitive answer, i.e., either is OK?

As to judges and criminal defense attorneys, are they to carry open or concealed? I suppose concealed, to avoid confusing them with the LEO contingent. GC 411.198 to 411.201 seems to say only concealed, (since that's the part of the statutes dealing with CHL) so I'm supposing they move among us CHLers.

I believe you mean criminal district attys.

Just trying to narrow down who the guy was that so startled my father-in-law. He's slowly coming around, BTW, but he just can't understand why his sweet, sweet daughter wants an AR to go along with her 1911!

[UpTheIrons]

Now, counselor, if I may ask a follow up question...

Off-duty carry, as y'all have said, is not the law, but generally encouraged. Is that off-duty carry supposed to be open or concealed, or is there no definitive answer, i.e., either is OK?

As to judges and criminal defense attorneys, are they to carry open or concealed? I suppose concealed, to avoid confusing them with the LEO contingent. GC 411.198 to 411.201 seems to say only concealed, (since that's the part of the statutes dealing with CHL) so I'm supposing they move among us CHLers.

I believe you mean criminal district attys.

Yes - criminal DISTRICT attorneys is what I meant to ask.

[gigag04]

Most of our guys always carry when "off" duty. Dept policy prohibits open carry when off duty in street clothes.