My first LEO encounter after receiving my license

[onecoolpilot]

I just received my Utah CFP in the mail on Monday, and today I get pulled over for speeding by a DPS officer. He was very nice and professional (no surprise there), but when I handed him my Utah permit, he did look a little confused.

As expected, I got a bunch of questions about why I have a Utah permit, did I ever live there, why I didn't have a Texas permit, what type of offense was keeping me from getting my Texas license, am I armed and where is it...

But he did make me question for a minute if I am legal or not. He said that even though Texas has an agreement with the state of Utah, since I am a resident of Texas, it doesn't cover me here??? He said that if I were walking in the mall or something and I hand the officer my Utah card, it would look really suspicious. It's been a couple of hours so I can't recall every single word, but that was the gist of the conversation.

He told me to keep my hands where they were (one hanging out the window and one on the steering wheel), then after he came back from the car with my speeding ticket, he asked me what kind of gun I was carrying, how I got the Utah card when I've never been to Utah, reminded me to get my Texas permit as soon as I am able too and told us to drive safe and have a nice day.

I am assuming that while in the car, either he looked up the law concerning the Utah out of state permit, or realized that I am still legal since we were 'traveling'. We were in Terrell and live in Plano, so about an hour drive.

Just for my own assurance, am I in fact able to carry a concealed handgun in Texas using my Utah CFP, even though I have lived in Texas my whole life?

[flb_78]

Why would you give a Utah permit to a Texas officer to begin with?

Yes, you're 100% legal carrying with your Utah permit in Texas.

[WildBill]

Sounds like to had a good stop. It sounds like you and the DPS officer need to brush up the the CHL laws.

[onecoolpilot]

Why would you give a Utah permit to a Texas officer to begin with?

As Mr.Wildbill pointed out, I'll take a look at the laws again, but from my understanding, I have to abide by the Texas CHL law, which says that when an officer asks for your id, you have to present your CHL card with it.

It sounds like you and the DPS officer need to brush up the the CHL laws.

Are you saying this because I had to ask you guys if I'm legal?

[flb_78]

Why would you give a Utah permit to a Texas officer to begin with?

As Mr.Wildbill pointed out, I'll take a look at the laws again, but from my understanding, I have to abide by the Texas CHL law, which says that when an officer asks for your id, you have to present your CHL card with it.

That's right, if you have a TEXAS CHL then you have to show it. There is no duty to inform if you do not have a Texas CHL.

[boomerang]

I am assuming that while in the car, either he looked up the law concerning the Utah out of state permit, or realized that I am still legal since we were 'traveling'. We were in Terrell and live in Plano, so about an hour drive.

You were legal because you were inside of a motor vehicle that was owned by you or under your control. No gun license required.

[crochetetc]

Why would you give a Utah permit to a Texas officer to begin with?

As Mr.Wildbill pointed out, I'll take a look at the laws again, but from my understanding, I have to abide by the Texas CHL law, which says that when an officer asks for your id, you have to present your CHL card with it.

That's right, if you have a TEXAS CHL then you have to show it. There is no duty to inform if you do not have a Texas CHL.

I have taken the Texas CHL course and my understanding was that if you carried on an out of state license such as Florida or Utah you have to obey the laws of the state you are currently carrying in. So in Texas you are required to show your CHL license and DL license together on any interactions with an officer when he requests id. So in presenting the Utah license he was doing as he should be. Please explain in more detail if I am not correct in understanding this.

Thanks!

[boomerang]

Suppose someone has a CHL from Texas and another state. If a Texas peace officer asks for identification, do they have to show both gun licenses or just the CHL?

Now suppose their CHL expires. Does the answer change for the out of state gun license?

[Charles L. Cotton]

A Texas resident can carry on a Utah CFP, or any other state's license, so long as Texas has reciprocity with that state, or if Texas has issued a unilateral recognition proclamation recognizing that license. Texas makes no distinction between residents and non-residents. (If a lot of people elect to get other states' licenses instead of a Texas license, the legislature may very well step in and change this, as did Colorado.)

If you are carrying on another state's license, then you must obey all Texas laws, as others have said. This includes complying with Tex. Gov't Code §411.205 that requires the displaying of your CHL when asked for identification by a LEO or magistrate. (See below.) Texas' new Motorist Protection Act does not change this requirement. Unlike other areas of the Penal Code and/or Government Code, §411.205 does not state that it applies "when carrying under the authority" of your CHL. I understand the argument that a CHL is no longer needed to legally carry a handgun in your car, but that doesn't change the specific language in §411.205. I know, this doesn't make sense.

Chas.

Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.17(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.

[flb_78]

My mistake.

[Crossfire]

Charles is right, the DPS officer was ill informed, and you did the right thing by showing the license.

[onecoolpilot]

Thank you everyone for your input. Now the only thing I have to worry about is how to pay for the ticket

[Crossfire]

...Now the only thing I have to worry about is how to pay for the ticket

Ask for a defensive driving class to get the ticket dismissed, and get a break on your auto insurance as a bonus.

[WildBill]

It sounds like you and the DPS officer need to brush up the the CHL laws.

Are you saying this because I had to ask you guys if I'm legal?[/quote]

No, I am saying this because of your last question.

Just for my own assurance, am I in fact able to carry a concealed handgun in Texas using my Utah CFP, even though I have lived in Texas my whole life?

I think that it's great you posted your experience and asked questions about your encounter. I think we all learned something. That's what asking questions is all about.

[Trinitite]

If you are carrying on another state's license, then you must obey all Texas laws, as others have said. This includes complying with Tex. Gov't Code §411.205 that requires the displaying of your CHL when asked for identification by a LEO or magistrate.

That's the letter of the law but think about this.

1. A cop in Texas has no way to know a Texas driver has a CHL from Utah.

2. The penalty for not showing the CHL is a suspension but Texas can only suspend a Texas CHL.

3. It's legal to carry a handgun and rifle in my car without a CHL.

4. Showing a Utah CHL might cause the cop to disarm you.

5. Anything you do or say can be used against you but what he doesn't know can't hurt you.

Practically speaking. If I had a Utah CHL I wouldn't show it to a Texas cop if he stopped me for speeding. It has too many possible disadvantages and no benefits.