Lying to police officers

[seamusTX]

A while back, I stated unequivocally that it was a crime to lie to a police officer when he is acting in an official capacity.

I had a conversation at the forum day with a member that convinced me otherwise. He wishes to remain anonymous.

My current position is:

• It is a crime to fail to identify yourself when asked, or to give a false identity.
• It is a crime to lie about a material fact in a criminal investigation.

These conclusions are based on the following sections of the penal code:

§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE. (a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.

§ 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

The earlier forum discussion was mainly about what a non-CHL holder should do if a police officer asks if he has a weapon in the car. The gentleman I was talking with made what I think is an excellent suggestion:

If the officer asks if you have a weapon, say "I have nothing illegal in this car."

Of course, the officer may persist in his questioning, and you have to decide what to do.

- Jim

[carlson1]

My current position is:

• It is a crime to fail to identify yourself when asked, or to give a false identity.
• It is a crime to lie about a material fact in a criminal investigation.

Yes and Yes.

[nitrogen]

very good point. If the "I have nothing illegal in this car" doesn't deflect the question you're in trouble, because you're backed into a corner with an ignorant officer. I'd probably answer, "Officer, I don't have any weapons on me." I'd offer to get out of the car and let him "Terry" me, but make it clear that I don't consent to any searches of the car, by locking it after I exit.

This will probably happen until an officer arrests someone under the new law, and gets a court judgement. Though, hopefully most officers will be aware of the new law.

Your best bet is to be respectful, yet firm, I guess.

[mcub]

While my experience with LEO's is limited, it’s my experience that they get really ticked off when lied to.
You run the risk of getting arrested for something they might other wise over look, just because they are insulted.

[CHL/LEO]

"I have nothing illegal in this car."

I would strongly advise you not to play these type games with LEOs who ask you a straight forward question. Just answer their questions. 99% of the officers that I work with would take your response as, "yes I have a gun in the car" whether you actually did or not.

You have every right to make that statement if you want to, but just be aware of what the consequences are going to be. My response would be, "I'm glad to hear that but you didn't answer my question."

[frankie_the_yankee]

"I have nothing illegal in this car."

I would strongly advise you not to play these type games with LEOs who ask you a straight forward question. Just answer their questions. 99% of the officers that I work with would take your response as, "yes I have a gun in the car" whether you actually did or not.

You have every right to make that statement if you want to, but just be aware of what the consequences are going to be. My response would be, "I'm glad to hear that but you didn't answer my question."

+1

My thoughts exactly when I read it.

[KBCraig]

"I have nothing illegal in this car."

I would strongly advise you not to play these type games with LEOs who ask you a straight forward question. Just answer their questions.

Why is it "playing games" to guard one's rights? Would you prefer that stopped motorists, instead of saying "I don't have anything illegal", say "No" when asked if they have any guns in the car? Would you feel better if they lie?

How about if they just don't answer? Do you think they're obliged to answer any queries beyond license and proof of insurance? Do you infer guilt of... "something" if they choose to not engage in conversation?

CHL/LEO, I think you're an upstanding Texas Peace Officer, and a pretty straight shooter based on what you've posted here on the forum. But the tone of your reply suggests that you need a gentle reminder: what is inside a motorist's car is none of your business unless you have either probable cause or articulable suspicion based on your experience that crime is afoot.

We all have a strong personal interest in making it home safely at the end of the day. Your interest doesn't outweigh mine.

Kevin

[CHL/LEO]

Why is it "playing games" to guard one's rights?

I wasn't referring to one's rights - I was referring to lying or being evasive. I respect your rights and want to make sure that they're protected.

...what is inside a motorist's car is none of your business unless you have either probable cause or articulable suspicion based on your experience that crime is afoot.

I wouldn't be asking that question unless I had PC or Reasonable Suspicion.

[mcub]

I still say it is a mistake to get into a legal argument on the side of the road, if you’re afraid of the answer just decline to make a statement.

[Renegade]

My current position is:

• It is a crime to fail to identify yourself when asked...

Yes and Yes.

NO.

In Texas you are not required to identify yourself, unless arrested. And you are also NOT required to show Physical ID ever, unless driving, CHL, hunting or some other licensed activity.

[mcub]

NO.

In Texas you are not required to identify yourself, unless arrested. And you are also NOT required to show Physical ID ever, unless driving, CHL, hunting or some other licensed activity.

IF you are detained, or if they believe you are a witness or have information about a crime you are required to ID your self.

[carlson1]

NO.

In Texas you are not required to identify yourself, unless arrested. And you are also NOT required to show Physical ID ever, unless driving, CHL, hunting or some other licensed activity.

IF you are detained, or if they believe you are a witness or have information about a crime you are required to ID your self.

Enough said. Thanks Mcub you are correct. You must give your name!

[Renegade]

NO.

In Texas you are not required to identify yourself, unless arrested. And you are also NOT required to show Physical ID ever, unless driving, CHL, hunting or some other licensed activity.

IF you are detained, or if they believe you are a witness or have information about a crime you are required to ID your self.

§ 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

OK, so under (A) it is only an offense if you "intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth" when lawfully arrested. So if you are not lawfully arrested, you do NOT have to give that info.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

OK, so under (B) it is only an offense if you "intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth" when lawfully arrested or detained. Providing NOTHING, is not an offense.

[Renegade]

Enough said. Thanks Mcub you are correct. You must give your name!

No he is not, but if that is what you want to believe, I am OK with it.

[carlson1]

Enough said. Thanks Mcub you are correct. You must give your name!

No he is not, but if that is what you want to believe, I am OK with it.

Ok I can take the correction - If the Peace Officer has Probable Cause then you have identify yourself. I was under the impression of a traffic stop, suspicious person call, etc. . .