Well your honor, you see, there is this guy on this forum call texaschlforum, his handle is srothstein, at least I think he's a guy, from his name n all. I never actually met him. But I think he's an officer. And HE said..........srothstein wrote:...The reason the signs and law do not refer to the speed limit is because we do not have a real speed limit in Texas...
Pulled Over by DPS
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
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"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
- Charles Schumer
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
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Last edited by cbr600 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
I would just like to say, whether its the law or not it is the courteous thing to do. I have lived in 10 different states, I have driven in many more, and TEXAS is the only state where folks are nice enough to move to the shoulder of a 2 lane road so someone who wishes to go a bit faster can pass. Its nothing to do with their "rights" or the "rights" of the person behind them, it is a courtesy extended from one driver to the next.
I have lived here for only 4 years, but it is the first state I have ever considered my "home" and a big part of it is how folks treat each other.
I learned long ago not to think of that car behind (or in front of) me as just a car. It is another person, and I treat their car how I would treat the person. I wouldn't run around a track intentionally blocking the inside, if a faster person is coming up behind me I do my best to move out of their way.
I move over for faster folks whenever I think it is reasonable without severely hindering my own speed. Why? Because I appreciate it when others extend the same courtesy to me.
I have lived here for only 4 years, but it is the first state I have ever considered my "home" and a big part of it is how folks treat each other.
I learned long ago not to think of that car behind (or in front of) me as just a car. It is another person, and I treat their car how I would treat the person. I wouldn't run around a track intentionally blocking the inside, if a faster person is coming up behind me I do my best to move out of their way.
I move over for faster folks whenever I think it is reasonable without severely hindering my own speed. Why? Because I appreciate it when others extend the same courtesy to me.
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
...OK...the Texas govt website says: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... TN.545.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which agrees with the text that Keith B and gigag04 posted...and I addressed yesterday...which CLEARLY says that under (1) passing,(clearly defined in the text) (3)on a roadway into three marked lanes for traffic or (4)on a roadway restricted to one-way traffic the "UNLESS" following the admonition "shall drive on the right-hand half of the roadway" applies...they are EXCEPTIONS to the "shall" ..... the (b)section talking about those travelling slower than the normal speed does not apply to my posted situation...I am travelling at the speed limit or slightly above, and am not impeding NORMAL traffic by doing so-----normal means normal...not speeders...which are an exception...common sense dictates that...and the idea that there is no speed limit in Texas is....way out there...and totally false...
now...as I said originally, unless there is a sign posted saying to drive in the right lane only...driving in the left lane is legal...the quotes from "the Director", the two erroneous news article quoted, and the Texas Highwayman quotes do not quote the law...are heavily laced by opinions not expressed in the law...and reference the wrong bill number...the correct bill number is 297, not 287, and that bill says nothing to change 545.051...
...it simply tells the Highway Dept to use a different sign...saying left lane for passing instead of slower traffic keep right WHEN they replace damaged or missing signs...or when they place new signs...it doesn't change the law 545.051 in any way...it expresses by legal regulatory signage, which we must obey, of course, that WHERE THE NEW SIGN IS POSTED, we must drive to the right unless passing...not only if we're slower than normal traffic...
...as the at that time the article was written, the trooper interviewed was in authority and given the job to explain the change in signage...I'm taking his comments as true and informed: http://lubbockonline.com/stories/070398/AST-1248.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if you'll read that text, you'll see that the new law didn't change 545.051, didn't tell the state to change all signs, and the DPS itself said that the new signage had to be posted before anyone was ticketed (fined) for driving in the left lane unless they were driving slower than normal, in which case they would be violating the old sign and get a ticket. He said that until the new sign was posted...the law didn't apply. WHY? because the law 545.051 didn't change...and until the new regulatory sign was posted...545.051 still was the law in power on the highways...
...the articles/blogs that reported the new signage were in error because they wanted the law to say drivers had to drive to the right....and that law said no such thing...it wasn't even directed to drivers...it only affects the driver once it is posted and then he is required to obey it...as my original post stated and I agreed...there are MANY miles of highway today in Texas where there are no signs of either type...many where the old sign is still up...for those areas 545.051 is the law...
...Now...I know, having driven since the 60s, that it is nicer, safer, and Texas polite, and all those good and wise things to go ahead and move right when we can to let a car pass us even if they're speeding...BUT I maintain that they can wait until I've completed passing the slower than the speed limit traffic to my right...nothing in the law says that I have to slow down, hit my brakes, and attempt to find space within the slower traffic to my right , then pull right, just because they want my lane...when THEY can slow down, wait until I've done my passing, and pull in ahead of the slower traffic...like I posted in the beginning...they are no more important than anyone else on the road...
...as to LEOS, past or current...we are not the best source for legal advice...and we do, as you see, disagree...we're just folks with our own attitudes...and noone here has shown me in the written law 545.051 or the HB297 of the 75R session(the new signage bill) where my original statements were in violation of an y law...both are written clearly...the only room for contention is if someone wants to contest the meaning of normal...and society defines normal as law...ie the speed limit...and the Director agreed with that in his closing statement... http://lubbockonline.com/stories/070398/AST-1248.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nothing gives anyone the right to speed... read his posting and you'll see that it HAD NOT been illegal to drive in the left lane until the new signs that said not to were posted...it has been about 13 years...and 545.051 has not been changed...the exceptions (1), (3), and (4) still have force of law...and the new sign, if posted, has power to remove (3) and (4)...notice how often you see the new signs....
...my objective has not been to insult anyone...or anger anyone...but we can't win an argument by quoting a law and then adding our opinion to the words of it...that's opinion...nor can we say "this means that...or which proves"...when the law...or other "authority source", in this case the Director's letter..or the reference to the signage law...does NOT say what you have said it does...or when what a blogger or Highwayman writes contradicts the law's content and intent...
...HB297 of the 75 R session says: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/75 ... 00297F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does not change the driving law at all...the change for us happens when the sign is posted and we read it...it, where it is used, supercedes the normal(there's that word again) driving law as defined in 545.051....
...now I'm done...and you may still disagree with my post...but the law is the law...and it only says what it says....
now...as I said originally, unless there is a sign posted saying to drive in the right lane only...driving in the left lane is legal...the quotes from "the Director", the two erroneous news article quoted, and the Texas Highwayman quotes do not quote the law...are heavily laced by opinions not expressed in the law...and reference the wrong bill number...the correct bill number is 297, not 287, and that bill says nothing to change 545.051...
...it simply tells the Highway Dept to use a different sign...saying left lane for passing instead of slower traffic keep right WHEN they replace damaged or missing signs...or when they place new signs...it doesn't change the law 545.051 in any way...it expresses by legal regulatory signage, which we must obey, of course, that WHERE THE NEW SIGN IS POSTED, we must drive to the right unless passing...not only if we're slower than normal traffic...
...as the at that time the article was written, the trooper interviewed was in authority and given the job to explain the change in signage...I'm taking his comments as true and informed: http://lubbockonline.com/stories/070398/AST-1248.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if you'll read that text, you'll see that the new law didn't change 545.051, didn't tell the state to change all signs, and the DPS itself said that the new signage had to be posted before anyone was ticketed (fined) for driving in the left lane unless they were driving slower than normal, in which case they would be violating the old sign and get a ticket. He said that until the new sign was posted...the law didn't apply. WHY? because the law 545.051 didn't change...and until the new regulatory sign was posted...545.051 still was the law in power on the highways...
...the articles/blogs that reported the new signage were in error because they wanted the law to say drivers had to drive to the right....and that law said no such thing...it wasn't even directed to drivers...it only affects the driver once it is posted and then he is required to obey it...as my original post stated and I agreed...there are MANY miles of highway today in Texas where there are no signs of either type...many where the old sign is still up...for those areas 545.051 is the law...
...Now...I know, having driven since the 60s, that it is nicer, safer, and Texas polite, and all those good and wise things to go ahead and move right when we can to let a car pass us even if they're speeding...BUT I maintain that they can wait until I've completed passing the slower than the speed limit traffic to my right...nothing in the law says that I have to slow down, hit my brakes, and attempt to find space within the slower traffic to my right , then pull right, just because they want my lane...when THEY can slow down, wait until I've done my passing, and pull in ahead of the slower traffic...like I posted in the beginning...they are no more important than anyone else on the road...
...as to LEOS, past or current...we are not the best source for legal advice...and we do, as you see, disagree...we're just folks with our own attitudes...and noone here has shown me in the written law 545.051 or the HB297 of the 75R session(the new signage bill) where my original statements were in violation of an y law...both are written clearly...the only room for contention is if someone wants to contest the meaning of normal...and society defines normal as law...ie the speed limit...and the Director agreed with that in his closing statement... http://lubbockonline.com/stories/070398/AST-1248.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nothing gives anyone the right to speed... read his posting and you'll see that it HAD NOT been illegal to drive in the left lane until the new signs that said not to were posted...it has been about 13 years...and 545.051 has not been changed...the exceptions (1), (3), and (4) still have force of law...and the new sign, if posted, has power to remove (3) and (4)...notice how often you see the new signs....
...my objective has not been to insult anyone...or anger anyone...but we can't win an argument by quoting a law and then adding our opinion to the words of it...that's opinion...nor can we say "this means that...or which proves"...when the law...or other "authority source", in this case the Director's letter..or the reference to the signage law...does NOT say what you have said it does...or when what a blogger or Highwayman writes contradicts the law's content and intent...
...HB297 of the 75 R session says: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/75 ... 00297F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does not change the driving law at all...the change for us happens when the sign is posted and we read it...it, where it is used, supercedes the normal(there's that word again) driving law as defined in 545.051....
...now I'm done...and you may still disagree with my post...but the law is the law...and it only says what it says....
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Just. Wow.
Six pages? Really? Talk about thread hijack. Where did the connection to CHL go?
Keep right unless passing. If you are passing in the left lane and somebody else is trying to pass faster (that is, pass you), work it out being courteous and polite. Maybe he waits. Maybe you wait. Whatever. Be courteous and polite and safe and everybody be careful out there and everybody get to where they are going in one piece. That's been working for me for years.
Now, if you are just driving in the left lane, not passing anybody, well that's a different story.
This just ain't hard folks...
Six pages? Really? Talk about thread hijack. Where did the connection to CHL go?
Keep right unless passing. If you are passing in the left lane and somebody else is trying to pass faster (that is, pass you), work it out being courteous and polite. Maybe he waits. Maybe you wait. Whatever. Be courteous and polite and safe and everybody be careful out there and everybody get to where they are going in one piece. That's been working for me for years.
Now, if you are just driving in the left lane, not passing anybody, well that's a different story.
This just ain't hard folks...
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
This sub-forum (LEO contacts & Bloopers) doesn't have anything to do with CHL. Doesn't have to. As for thread hijack, I think it's more the usual "thread drift." It went from a LEO stop and a sticker on the OP's DL, to radar detectors, to speeding in general, and then finally to a lively discussion of driving in the left lane when not passing, or something like that. Many threads on this forum, as well as most other forums do drift. When they go to far, hopefully one of the mods put the breaks on.edmart001 wrote:Just. Wow.
Six pages? Really? Talk about thread hijack. Where did the connection to CHL go?
Keep right unless passing. If you are passing in the left lane and somebody else is trying to pass faster (that is, pass you), work it out being courteous and polite. Maybe he waits. Maybe you wait. Whatever. Be courteous and polite and safe and everybody be careful out there and everybody get to where they are going in one piece. That's been working for me for years.
Now, if you are just driving in the left lane, not passing anybody, well that's a different story.
This just ain't hard folks...
Personally, I am still of the opinion that I can drive in the left lane of any freeway with 3 or more lanes in one direction if I am doing the speed limit, unless there is signage that says either "Slower Traffic keep Right," or "Keep Right Except to Pass," or words to that effect. I may be wrong, but that's what the way I read the law as written. In reality I don't do that, but I believe that it's legal if I want to.
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Getting back on track, if the driver/s behind you don't like your speed or are otherwise being rude, there is always .G26ster wrote:
Personally, I am still of the opinion that I can drive in the left lane of any freeway with 3 or more lanes in one direction if I am doing the speed limit, unless there is signage that says either "Slower Traffic keep Right," or "Keep Right Except to Pass," or words to that effect. I may be wrong, but that's what the way I read the law as written. In reality I don't do that, but I believe that it's legal if I want to.
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Question for LEOs,
How far is a sign effective for?
How far is a sign effective for?
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
- Charles Schumer
- Noah Webster
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
- Charles Schumer
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
OK, I give up trying to convince you that it is the law. You have your interpretation that differs from numreious others and even from individuals that ARE active LEO's in the State of Texas. So, I see your views will not change so they will meet your desires to do as you want, even thought the DPS (who enforces the laws in Texas) quote states:speedsix wrote:...my objective has not been to insult anyone...or anger anyone...but we can't win an argument by quoting a law and then adding our opinion to the words of it...that's opinion...nor can we say "this means that...or which proves"...when the law...or other "authority source", in this case the Director's letter..or the reference to the signage law...does NOT say what you have said it does...or when what a blogger or Highwayman writes contradicts the law's content and intent...
...HB297 of the 75 R session says: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/75 ... 00297F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does not change the driving law at all...the change for us happens when the sign is posted and we read it...it, where it is used, supercedes the normal(there's that word again) driving law as defined in 545.051....
...now I'm done...and you may still disagree with my post...but the law is the law...and it only says what it says....
So, I am done too.Law enforcement agencies have long had the ability to write citations for slower vehicles failing to keep to the right or for impeding traffic. The new law does not affect that.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Thanks guys! Not as entertaining as UFC but almost, and it's free! My wife will be the first to tell anyone that I need to work on my attitude while driving. There are three words that our kids are not allowed to use (other than the typical four letter words). Those words are stupid, idiot, and imbecile. Last Saturday (the first day a lot of people got out of the house) while driving with the family I used all three multiple times. These were aimed mostly in the direction of people driving well under the speed limit in the left hand lane and people hitting their breaks exactly where you would expect there to be ice. For some reason the wife was much more upset with me than the other drivers.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
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John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Imagine how much smoother traffic would flow if the middle lane moved faster than the right lane and the left lane moved faster than the middle lane, so each car was continuously passing the cars in the lane to its right.PappaGun wrote:Can you imagine rush hour in Dallas when everyone drives in the right lane, or maybe right two lanes.
When in doubt
Vote them out!
Vote them out!
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
That would be awesome!tacticool wrote:Imagine how much smoother traffic would flow if the middle lane moved faster than the right lane and the left lane moved faster than the middle lane, so each car was continuously passing the cars in the lane to its right.PappaGun wrote:Can you imagine rush hour in Dallas when everyone drives in the right lane, or maybe right two lanes.
We wouldn't even need that blasted HOV lane.
Hey, that could be used for even FASTER drivers!
What a concept.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
- Charles Schumer
- Noah Webster
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars."
- Charles Schumer
Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Where else are you going to put the 8mpg SUV with 2 people?PappaGun wrote:That would be awesome!tacticool wrote:Imagine how much smoother traffic would flow if the middle lane moved faster than the right lane and the left lane moved faster than the middle lane, so each car was continuously passing the cars in the lane to its right.PappaGun wrote:Can you imagine rush hour in Dallas when everyone drives in the right lane, or maybe right two lanes.
We wouldn't even need that blasted HOV lane.
When in doubt
Vote them out!
Vote them out!
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
The short answer is: until you see another one that tells you something different than the one before.PappaGun wrote:Question for LEOs,
How far is a sign effective for?
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: Pulled Over by DPS
Several years ago post 911, right after leaving the hospital, I was lighted up on MCB Camp Lejeune, NC for going over the posted 25 mph speed limit in my POV. I told the young MP that the sign we were both looking at says the speed limit is 35 mph. The young marine MP told me I wasn't to the next sign yet. The next sign was 100 feet ahead of us in clear view. The young gyrene ran my Contractor's ID and excused me because I was on a walking stick and old. Semper Fi!Excaliber wrote:The short answer is: until you see another one that tells you something different than the one before.PappaGun wrote:Question for LEOs,
How far is a sign effective for?
The moral of this story is that the law is what the LEO of the moment says it is. You get a chance to pay your way out of the charge at the courthouse if you have a different interpretation of the charge.