Bellaire: another police shooting error

[seamusTX]

I'm trying not to be either emotional or judgmental about this case (after my initial overreaction) until the verdict comes down.

I'm surprised to hear that a bullet from my weapon lodged in another's liver wouldn't be considered pretty clear evidence that I intended to snuff the guys life out.

What do we always say? "Shoot to stop, not shoot to kill." That is exactly what happened here.

And the, "he reached for his waistband" defense is right up there ...

One of the significant questions before the jury is when an officer can justifiably choose to use deadly force against a felony suspect who is refusing to obey orders.

Does the officer wait for the suspect to actually produce a weapon, point it at the officer, or what? It was a chaotic situation in the dark.

Never mind that the "felony suspect" knew that he himself was as innocent as a newborn puppy. The officer didn't know that.

I seem to be getting a reputation around here as a bore because I keep bringing up the elements of justification in Chapter 9.32:

DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; ...

This is a very difficult question of subjective belief and what constituted a reasonable action under the circumstances that existed at the time (not the circumstances that are known after the lawyers get done slicing and dicing a year later).

I don't envy the jury members.

- Jim

[psijac]

The Police unions are involved also. They often want to continue to fight when its against the city's interest to continue.

I always thought that Unions were noble things fighting to protect the little guy form deadly working conditions. Now a days they seem at best, unnecessary.
Unions don't need to defend police. THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE GUNS FOR.

No matter how atrocious the mistake is you can never convict a police officer. It would weaken the Police Department as a whole and lead to officers unwilling to enforce laws.
You would enforce a law if you knew the slightest mistake on your part would result in jail time for yourself? Of course things like tampering with evidence or falsifying testimony is another story. lack of morals is unforgivable in a cop however lack typing skills which result in punctured livers is.

[chabouk]

And the, "he reached for his waistband" defense is right up there ...

One of the significant questions before the jury is when an officer can justifiably choose to use deadly force against a felony suspect who is refusing to obey orders.

From all reports, he was obeying orders, at least until he saw his mom slammed against the wall.

I don't know which "use of force continuum model" the Bellaire PD uses, but I'm willing to bet that same round of drinks that "disobeying orders" doesn't justify jumping from verbal commands to use of deadly force.

I seem to be getting a reputation around here as a bore because I keep bringing up the elements of justification in Chapter 9.32:

DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; ...

Interestingly, it looks like Robbie Tolan could also claim the defense of necessity, if he was charged. The circumstances could certainly be portrayed so that he reasonably believed that he needed to use force to stop an unlawful use of force against his mother.

I'm sure that jury deliberations are interesting. I wonder if the jury was allowed to hear the statistics about Bellaire's traffic stops (if I recall correctly, a small minority black population, but the vast majority of their traffic stops were black drivers).

[seamusTX]

From all reports, he was obeying orders, at least until he saw his mom slammed against the wall.

I don't know which "use of force continuum model" the Bellaire PD uses, but I'm willing to bet that same round of drinks that "disobeying orders" doesn't justify jumping from verbal commands to use of deadly force.

Consider the scene from Sgt. Cotton's point of view. He and one other officer are on the scene. He believes that two felony suspects are under arrest, lying on the ground. Two other unknown adults are present (Tolen family members, but he doesn't know that for a fact). One of those adults is "agitated" and by some accounts yelling obscenities. Then one of the suspects gets up and reaches for his waistband.

We can argue about it all day. Clearly the prosecutors think Sgt. Cotton used excessive force. That is the question of fact for the jury to decide.

I wonder if the jury was allowed to hear the statistics about Bellaire's traffic stops (if I recall correctly, a small minority black population, but the vast majority of their traffic stops were black drivers).

As much as I despise racial profiling, it is probably irrelevant to this case.

The reason for running the plates was that the first police officer, Edwards, saw the vehicle make a “quick” turn. It was 2 a.m. I doubt the officer could have seen that the people in the vehicle were black.

- Jim

[blackdog8200]

This is one of those stories that is a tradgedy all around. My heart goes out to all involved. Since I was not there nor have I heard any testimony i will not comment on the merits of the legal case either way.

There seems to be a lesson here:

1. Do what the police say and keep doing it until they say stop.
2. Swallow your pride and refer to number 1.
3. Do not interfere with the police when they have someone on the ground or under arrest.
4. If you do interfere you need to be civil and physically passive.
5. If it is a wrongful arrest, we have lawyers and courts to settle it out.
6. If you get killed by the police, you don't get to testify in your behalf.
7. Don't do anything stupid.


Tough job being a cop and this will only make it harder, no matter what the outcome.

Prayers for all involved. Very sad indeed.

[chuckybrown]

Acquitted.

[seamusTX]

The members of the jury heard the evidence and made their decision. So be it.

Deliberations took 4 1/2 hours, so it wasn't a snap decision.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 00509.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't hesitate to admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong.

1. Do what the police say and keep doing it until they say stop.
2. Swallow your pride and refer to number 1.

I agree that this is the only prudent course of action if you don't want to be buried with a bullet in your liver. That's the way it was when and where I grew up.

But what does it say about the relationship between police and non-LEO citizens?

Does anyone still wonder why some antagonism and resentment exist?

- Jim

[stevie_d_64]

No matter how atrocious the mistake is you can never convict a police officer. It would weaken the Police Department as a whole and lead to officers unwilling to enforce laws. You would enforce a law if you knew the slightest mistake on your part would result in jail time for yourself? Of course things like tampering with evidence or falsifying testimony is another story. lack of morals is unforgivable in a cop however lack typing skills which result in punctured livers is.

Huh???