Pulled over ... while walking

[seamusTX]

P.S.: I'm not trying to be humorous. I'm as serious as a stroke.

- Jim

[KBCraig]

Ah, the infamous "arrested for resisting arrest" charge.

"So, officer, why was the defendant being arrested?"
"For resisting arrest."
"What arrest was it that he was resisting?"
"Being arrested."
"For what?
"Resisting arrest."

Repeat ad infinitum...

[atxgun]

Follow ups to questions:

It was north of ben white a block west of south first.

I was walking on the sidewalk on the right hand side of the street. It was a two way street, and I was facing the cop car approaching me from the other direction.

No he did not ask for my wallet. First thing he asked was are you carrying a weapon -- maybe i was printing with my shoulder holster, it was a large XD -- but then why did he ask where it was? I replied in a single motion "yessir, I'm chl" as i proceeded to hand him my info. I dunno, i just thought that's what you were supposed to do.

For those that say "they'd better get whole force down there if it were me, no way I'm going in cuffs..." Let me know how well that works out for you.

He was alone when he cuffed me, the other cop was pulling around the corner just as he was sitting me on the curb.

As an aside I noticed some more "unusual" cop activity in the area tonight. Driving home tonight north bound on south 1st there was a car pulled over on the southbound side. It just seemed odd, IMO, they stopped him on a main street like that instead of going over to a side street. Also the car wasn't pulled all the way over but just in the lane as if he were driving down it. In front was one cop car at an angle making it look like he pulled in front of him and two cop cars more to the side behind. From what I could see it was just a single person they were questioning. (They didn't have him sitting on the curb in cuffs though )

Maybe I'm just over reacting about it being unusual and still just feeling a little jaded about my encounter.

[aardwolf]

You should call the ACLU. They would love to hear about a local resident handcuffed for walking in his own neighborhood.

[seamusTX]

IMHO, you are not over-reacting. No citizen of a free republic should be treated that way.

It's up to you how you want to pursue the incident.

- Jim

[KRM45]

Follow ups to questions:

It was north of ben white a block west of south first.

I was walking on the sidewalk on the right hand side of the street. It was a two way street, and I was facing the cop car approaching me from the other direction.

No he did not ask for my wallet. First thing he asked was are you carrying a weapon -- maybe i was printing with my shoulder holster, it was a large XD -- but then why did he ask where it was? I replied in a single motion "yessir, I'm chl" as i proceeded to hand him my info. I dunno, i just thought that's what you were supposed to do.

For those that say "they'd better get whole force down there if it were me, no way I'm going in cuffs..." Let me know how well that works out for you.

He was alone when he cuffed me, the other cop was pulling around the corner just as he was sitting me on the curb.

As an aside I noticed some more "unusual" cop activity in the area tonight. Driving home tonight north bound on south 1st there was a car pulled over on the southbound side. It just seemed odd, IMO, they stopped him on a main street like that instead of going over to a side street. Also the car wasn't pulled all the way over but just in the lane as if he were driving down it. In front was one cop car at an angle making it look like he pulled in front of him and two cop cars more to the side behind. From what I could see it was just a single person they were questioning. (They didn't have him sitting on the curb in cuffs though )

Maybe I'm just over reacting about it being unusual and still just feeling a little jaded about my encounter.

Odd... They must have either been looking for someone, or have some kind of targeted enforcement of this area. Based on your description the stop sounds suspect to me. At the least you could call and get the PD's version of why they detained you, then decide if you want to pursue an official complaint.

[atxgun]

Well guys I've been going back and forth on whether or not this deserves a follow up. On one hand it was maybe just 15 minutes and over with and pursuing it will cost more time. On the other hand people should be held accountable for their actions. If I filed a complaint in the next day or two do you think it would loose any credibility along the lines of "well, if you were so concerned then why didn't you report it right away?"

I don't think I would be contacting the ACLU or any attorney, just an account of the events to the department hoping they see things my way and take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. One thing I def. don't want to happen is the ACLU to jump on this and try to make a big case out of it with my name ending up in the papers.

I don't get the feeling he was a "bad cop". With things like leaving my gun on the ground and instructing me not to retrieve it until they pulled away, I just think he doesn't know proper procedure. (Not to say I know LEO proper procedure I'd put money on that not being part of it).


KRM45 -- So I can just call the PD and ask why I was pulled over and they'll look it up and tell me?

[SCone]

Talk to their superiors, tell what went on from your view. Make sure they know you're not doing this to get anyone in trouble. But if there's something that needs to be done, now is the time.

The next person may resist, as someone suggested earlier, and the results could be injury or even death.

[CompVest]

I don't get the feeling he was a "bad cop". With things like leaving my gun on the ground and instructing me not to retrieve it until they pulled away, I just think he doesn't know proper procedure. (Not to say I know LEO proper procedure I'd put money on that not being part of it).

If the officer doen't know proper procedure I think he has no business patroling alone.

[flintknapper]

What would you have done when the LEO said, "Put your hands behind your back"?

- Jim

Huh uh, ain't happening, I would not have complied, they'd need the whole dang force. They can put one on me and put the other on the car or a fence or a pole, but not both hands together.

It’s generally a bad idea to “resist” an arrest. I think the best advice is to seek “remedy” in the courts…if you feel you have suffered an injustice.

Sec. 38.03. Resisting Arrest, Search, or Transportation.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally prevents or obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction from effecting an arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or another by using force against the peace officer or another.
(b) It is no defense to prosecution under this section that the arrest or search was unlawful.
(c) Except as provided in Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the actor uses a deadly weapon to resist the arrest or search.

There are certain circumstances under which you may be justified in “resisting”, but they are fairly rare and would probably need to be supported by witnesses or dash-cam recordings.

§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer ... uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's ... use or attempted use of greater force than necessary. (4)

§ 9.22. NECESSITY.

Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believed the conduct is necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear. (3)

Although I believe the LEO in this case acted inappropriately (on several levels), I don’t think “resisting” would be justified on your part.

[flintknapper]

You would have gone to jail...

If not the morgue.

I wouldn't be too quick to count this a foregone conclusion. Plenty of cops get their butts "handed to them" each year.

Sorry, flb_78, but resisting arrest usually gets you tazed or "lit up" these days. If that does not produce the level of compliance that the cops want, it will be clubs or pistols.

I am going to hope that you were trying to be humorous.

The place to fight the cops is in court, not on the street.

Do the math.

I certainly agree with this.

[KBCraig]

There are certain circumstances under which you may be justified in “resisting”, but they are fairly rare and would probably need to be supported by witnesses or dash-cam recordings.

§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer ... uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's ... use or attempted use of greater force than necessary. (4)

An example would be if you offered no resistance, but the officer punched you or struck you with a baton, just to "make sure your mind was right".

At that point, technically speaking, you're legally justified to defend yourself.

As a practical matter, because courts and juries give great weight to police testimony, then, a) you'd better be able to win the fight, and, b) you should be sitting down calmly while the officer is face-down in handcuffs when the other police arrive (the police that you summoned!)

Even then, you shouldn't expect anyone to shake your hand and thank you for reining in a rogue officer.

[KRM45]

Well guys I've been going back and forth on whether or not this deserves a follow up. On one hand it was maybe just 15 minutes and over with and pursuing it will cost more time. On the other hand people should be held accountable for their actions. If I filed a complaint in the next day or two do you think it would loose any credibility along the lines of "well, if you were so concerned then why didn't you report it right away?"

I don't think I would be contacting the ACLU or any attorney, just an account of the events to the department hoping they see things my way and take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. One thing I def. don't want to happen is the ACLU to jump on this and try to make a big case out of it with my name ending up in the papers.

I don't get the feeling he was a "bad cop". With things like leaving my gun on the ground and instructing me not to retrieve it until they pulled away, I just think he doesn't know proper procedure. (Not to say I know LEO proper procedure I'd put money on that not being part of it).


KRM45 -- So I can just call the PD and ask why I was pulled over and they'll look it up and tell me?

You might try a letter to the chief.

[KRM45]

You would have gone to jail...

If not the morgue.

I wouldn't be too quick to count this a foregone conclusion. Plenty of cops get their butts "handed to them" each year.

At the point in the relevant story that this resistance would have been offered (ie when he went to apply handcuffs) the op's id had already been taken. If you "hand the cops butt to them" after they have called in your id, how long do you think it will take before the swat team kicks in your door?

Now I agree that there are bad cops out there, and that unlawful detentions, and arrests do take place. I don't believe it is as often as people seem to think. I agree with what has been said though, on th estreet is not the place to fight with the police, especially by force. If your arrest was unlawful a first year law student should be able to get you off on the criminal charge, and you should then file a civil suit.

[boomerang]

You might try a letter to the chief.

Or the local paper.

Handcuffed for walking around the block.