Similar to the DPS officer running the Serial thread, but...

[baldeagle]

Disregarding all the other issues, I can't believe an LEO would disarm you and then leave you standing by the car. The lack of safety awareness is alarming. Obviously he assumed that was the only weapon that you had. What about a BUG? I pray this officer never pulls over the wrong guy, or we could be reading about him in the news. Did he not even ask you if you had any other weapons on you or in your vehicle?

[PvilleStang]

He left me sitting IN the car, actually... Had me lean forward to disarm me.

[austin-tatious]

He left me sitting IN the car, actually... Had me lean forward to disarm me.

I wonder how he disarms someone using a SmartCarry.

[Hoi Polloi]

He left me sitting IN the car, actually... Had me lean forward to disarm me.

I wonder how he disarms someone using a SmartCarry.

Would it be reasonable for a female using SmartCarry or a thigh carry or a shoulder carry for that matter to say she wanted a female officer to disarm her? Or that she didn't want the officer looking down her pants as she disarmed? How would that play out maintaining proper modesty, respect, dignity, and safety?

[gregthehand]

Well I'm not trying to get too far off topic here but it's been discussed so....

Your license plate MUST be on the front of your vehicle and here is why.

Sec. 502.409. WRONG, FICTITIOUS, ALTERED, OR OBSCURED LICENSE PLATE.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a number plate or registration insignia that:
(1) is assigned to a different motor vehicle;(2) is assigned to the vehicle under any other motor vehicle law other than by the department;(3) is assigned for a registration period other than the registration period in effect;(4) is fictitious;(5) has blurring or reflective matter that significantly impairs the readability of the name of the state in which the vehicle is registered or the letters or numbers of the license plate number at any time;(6) has an attached illuminated device or sticker, decal, emblem, or other insignia that is not authorized by law and that interferes with the readability of the letters or numbers of the license plate number or the name of the state in which the vehicle is registered; or(7) has a coating, covering, protective material, or other apparatus that: (A) distorts angular visibility or detectability;

Soooo I wouldn't write a ticket for no front license plate I would write a ticket for obscured license plate ticket. I would have no problem making it stick either. If your license plate is behind your curved windshield and at an angle sitting on your dash it can't be seen from someone who is at a 20-30 degree angle from the plate. If the sun is hitting your windshield, it can't be seen. It's it's dark out and your interior light is on, or light is hitting your windshield it can't be seen. Most people position it in front of either the driver's seat or the passenger seat. In either case due to the curvature of the windshield some one standing about four feet in front of the car on the opposite side would have their view of the license plate obscured by the glass.

Now you may be able to say in court that under certain conditions your license plate is visible. However the office will always be able to argue that your license plate is obscured from certain angles as well. Plus it will be an easy argument for them since they can point out that the initial reason they stopped you was because they observed your vehicle driving with no front license plate. Only after they stopped you were they able to see you had one. Finally the license plates have a distinctive reflective material on them. If they are placed behind glass it alters the effect of that relfective paint.

So all this is dependant on the cop who pulls you over. You may get one who is cool and lets you go. Of course you may get one fresh out of the police academy that is just dieing to write as many tickets as he can. In either case I think everyone would agree that calling un-needed attention of the police to your vehicle is un-desirable. In the OPs case he got a cop who didn't trust CHL holders and risked scratching his hood. In your case you may have to go to court or be late for an appointment, or whatever.

I hate the front license plate law too. I hate a lot of laws on our books but even when I was in law enforcement I had no problem using it as PC to conduct a traffic stop. I could then go and look for other elements of a crime, or maybe the guy had a warrant. Worst case scenario it would be nothing, I'd write a warning, and my supervisors could see that I was out patrolling and making citizen contact. Pick and choose the battles you want to win carefully.

***EDIT TO ADD*** After reading the law I think I could make an argument for no front license plate too. The law doesn't state visible from the front, it states "one on the front and one on the rear." So unless you are driving a cab over chassis truck and your windshield is positioned on the very front of your vehicle then it's not on the front. More like the a third to half way back. Think about it this way. If I had a key to your car and I was leaving it in a parking lot for you to pick up later, and you said to hide the key "somewhere on the front of my car" would putting it under a windshield wiper arm make it easier or harder for you to locate?

[gringop]

I was pulled over for the second trip in a row to Austin (no front license plate). The officer asked, "May I remove your weapon from your holster?" after which I responded in the affirmative. First off, I've never done anything so drastic, but I wanted to punch the guy in the face when he put my gun directly on the roof of my car . I mean, let me get a towel out for you or something, don't just put a metal gun directly on my car! But then he ran the serial numbers on his little fishing trip. So for future reference, is their any legal recourse for answering his request with a, no, I don't want you to pull my gun? I don't know if there's a clause similar to refusing to blow (since said officer didn't demand my weapon, rather asked, quite politely, I might add). All in all, not a bad stop, as it was another warning, and I was back to the trip in 10 minutes or so, to pass all the stupid soccer moms who love to ride the left lane at 5 under.

I suggest that you pay attention on your next CHL renewal class.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

As far as your front LP, after getting pull over TWICE, I would regard this as a clue and affix that LP to the front of your car if you don't want to get pulled over again. Not running a front LP and wanting a towel to protect it from the gun indicates to me that you have a little too much emotional investment in that car. Like the gun, it's just a tool, my suggestion is to use it like one.

Gringop

[sjfcontrol]

I was pulled over for the second trip in a row to Austin (no front license plate). The officer asked, "May I remove your weapon from your holster?" after which I responded in the affirmative. First off, I've never done anything so drastic, but I wanted to punch the guy in the face when he put my gun directly on the roof of my car . I mean, let me get a towel out for you or something, don't just put a metal gun directly on my car! But then he ran the serial numbers on his little fishing trip. So for future reference, is their any legal recourse for answering his request with a, no, I don't want you to pull my gun? I don't know if there's a clause similar to refusing to blow (since said officer didn't demand my weapon, rather asked, quite politely, I might add). All in all, not a bad stop, as it was another warning, and I was back to the trip in 10 minutes or so, to pass all the stupid soccer moms who love to ride the left lane at 5 under.

I suggest that you pay attention on your next CHL renewal class.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

As far as your front LP, after getting pull over TWICE, I would regard this as a clue and affix that LP to the front of your car if you don't want to get pulled over again. Not running a front LP and wanting a towel to protect it from the gun indicates to me that you have a little too much emotional investment in that car. Like the gun, it's just a tool, my suggestion is to use it like one.

Gringop

Because of the wording above, it would seem that the officer would only be justified in disarming a CHL when he has an articulate-able reason to believe its necessary for somebodies safety. If you're not behaving in a manner that might imply some instability, that would prove difficult. Note that it does not say the officer can disarm the CHL whenever he feels like it. There must be a safety reason. In fact, it could easily be argued that there is more risk in an officer handling an unfamiliar firearm than there would be if everybody just left their firearms alone during a peaceful traffic stop.

[E.Marquez]

[I suggest that you pay attention on your next CHL renewal class.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

Yes, got it..

Where in that statute does it mention that the officer has the right to place the weapon on my personal property in a manner which is likely to cause damage?

Where in that statute does it REQUIRE the officer to physically handle the weapon?

Where in that statute does it REQUIRE the LEO to take the weapon he likely has no personal experience with, unload it, clear and check the serial number.. under the presumption it MAY be stolen... So might the car I'm driving, the watch on my wrist, the long gun in my trunk, the weapon in my car that is at hand, but not in the holster he just "Disarmed"?

The statute authorizes the LEO to disarm a citizen carrying a concealed weapon.. No argument… The HOW is not cited, and the WHY seems to be open to whatever reason the LEO in question wants it to be.

Funny, I treat folks I deal with much the same way… Only,,, they are likely insurgents, possessing weapons, explosives and have a known and stated intent to kill me and all of those around me. Seems some LEO’s have the same mentality when dealing with the people they protect and serve (though the SCOTUS says they have no responsibility to protect us I believe.. Note to self..I need to find that case and decision remarks)

[seamusTX]

Now this is a serious question, so please consider your answer carefully:

What are you going to do about it?

Maybe I'm biased by having come of age in Chicago, where you are lucky to come away from a police encounter with nothing more than paperwork.

- Jim

[Hoi Polloi]

I wouldn't think twice before calling the officer or his supervisor in my sweetest and most upbeat and polite voice and thanking them for their work and politely acknowledging their right to disarm a CHL when they have concerns over their safety, and empathizing with the risks to their safety they face each day, and asking to have a conversation on how we might better be able to work together. Even if they weren't thrilled, I can't imagine they'd outright say no. I'd ask what their experiences have been over it being safer to handle and disarm a foreign firearm than to leave it on a CHL holder and I'd then suggest my own thoughts on how that might go smoother, like not placing the firearm on the unprotected vehicle, and I'd hope that the positive conversation would change their way of handling things in the future.

And if I thought there was any remaining tension, I'd send cookies with a thank you note after.

Any LEOs here want to tell me how that would be taken?

[CompVest]

I need to find that case and decision remarks)

There are seven cases I know!

[i8godzilla]

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

Was the officer so concerned for his safety that he called for back-up? Seems to me that if he was SO CONCERNED that he, you, or someone else needed protection he would have at a minimum called for another unit.

[glbedd53]

I have not thought about it a lot but it seems like an LEO that is concerned for his/her safety enough to disarm a CHL is probably concerned enough to call for back-up.

[danpaw]

I would say that most cops I know are more of a threat to their own safety when they are trying to handle my firearm on the side of the road. I know someone is going to say that they are specially trained. Maybe in some places but the ones I know ain't specially trained for squat.

[glbedd53]

I e-mailed Gov. Perrys office and state rep Randy Webers office about it. Gov. Perrys office said it was refered to the DPS head guy and that I wanted a response. I got nothing from Webers office.