My first LEO encounter after receiving my license

[anygunanywhere]

If you are carrying on another state's license, then you must obey all Texas laws, as others have said. This includes complying with Tex. Gov't Code §411.205 that requires the displaying of your CHL when asked for identification by a LEO or magistrate.

That's the letter of the law but think about this.

1. A cop in Texas has no way to know a Texas driver has a CHL from Utah.

2. The penalty for not showing the CHL is a suspension but Texas can only suspend a Texas CHL.

3. It's legal to carry a handgun and rifle in my car without a CHL.

4. Showing a Utah CHL might cause the cop to disarm you.

5. Anything you do or say can be used against you but what he doesn't know can't hurt you.

Practically speaking. If I had a Utah CHL I wouldn't show it to a Texas cop if he stopped me for speeding. It has too many possible disadvantages and no benefits.

Then you are saying that you will break the law. NIce way to show how CHLers are really good guys who respect the law.

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

You are better off just showing your Utah CHL and doing what you are supposed to do.

Anygunanywhere

[boomerang]

Then you are saying that you will break the law. NIce way to show how CHLers are really good guys who respect the law.

If he was speeding then he was already breaking the law.

[mgood]

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

Not necessarily.

I do agree that he should obey the law and display his CHL (from whatever state) when asked for ID.

But it is legal to carry in your vehicle now in Texas, with or without a CHL.
I don't believe there's anything that says you can't carry on your person in your vehicle without a CHL.

I still haven't gotten around to sending in the paperwork to renew my Texas CHL. Too broke to afford the fee at the moment. (And trying to get my Kimber Ultra CDP and Ruger Mini-14 off layaway )
I live in Texas but work in New Mexico, where open carry is legal. I'm carrying openly on my belt just about every time I leave the house.
I'm legal in my house.
I'm legal between my house and my vehicle.
I'm legal in my vehicle.
And once I cross the state line, I'm legal just about everywhere.
I work in a gun store where open carry is not only legal, but sort of expected.
If I were to get stopped by a LEO in Texas on my way to or from work, and if for some reason he wanted me to exit my vehicle, I'd politely and calmly inform him that I'm carrying.
I'd keep my hands on the wheel and without making any movement say, "Sir . . . I have a pistol on my belt. . . ." And let him decide how to handle it. If he hesitated, I'd ask " . . . would you like me to leave it on the seat over there or would you prefer I got out with it?"
I'm legal in my truck, but I can't get out with the gun. I suppose that if he doesn't want me handling it right then, which he probably doesn't, and asks me to step out anyway, no one is going to convict me for being outside the vehicle with a handgun when the officer told me to do just that. I'd be happy to step out and let him remove it from my holster if he so chooses.
I also live in a small town, surrounded by a bunch of other small towns, where no one (law enforcement included) gets too terribly excited about someone carrying a gun; rural area, lots of hunters, etc.

[anygunanywhere]

I do agree that he should obey the law and display his CHL (from whatever state) when asked for ID.

But it is legal to carry in your vehicle now in Texas, with or without a CHL.
I don't believe there's anything that says you can't carry on your person in your vehicle without a CHL.

I never said it was illegal to carry on your person in your vehicle without a CHL.

If you are stopped in Texas, have a CHL and do not inform the LEO and you are discovered to be carrying and claim that you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL but under the "legal to carry in my vehicle" law, be sure to tell us how that works out for you.

This topic has been discussed many times here and the consensus opinion is that you must disclose. I certainly hope that no one new to CHL takes your advice and makes an error in judgement they will regret.

Anygunanywhere

[mgood]

I do agree that he should obey the law and display his CHL (from whatever state) when asked for ID.

But it is legal to carry in your vehicle now in Texas, with or without a CHL.
I don't believe there's anything that says you can't carry on your person in your vehicle without a CHL.

I never said it was illegal to carry on your person in your vehicle without a CHL.

If you are stopped in Texas, have a CHL and do not inform the LEO and you are discovered to be carrying and claim that you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL but under the "legal to carry in my vehicle" law, be sure to tell us how that works out for you.

This topic has been discussed many times here and the consensus opinion is that you must disclose. I certainly hope that no one new to CHL takes your advice and makes an error in judgement they will regret.

Anygunanywhere

I misunderstood you.
I thought you were saying that if he didn't tell them he had the Utah CHL, then he was admitting to a crime if he told them he had a handgun on him. All I was saying was that so long as no one knows he has the Utah card, he's still legally carrying in his vehicle, as far as the LEO knows.

My way of handling the situation of having the pistol on me when stopped without a CHL was for just that, someone without a CHL.

I did agree with you that he should show his Utah CHL. I'm not really sure why he wouldn't

[Liberty]

Then you are saying that you will break the law. NIce way to show how CHLers are really good guys who respect the law.

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

You are better off just showing your Utah CHL and doing what you are supposed to do.

Anygunanywhere

While I don't recommend ignoring any old laws, We all break laws at some point or another. Sometimes because the laws just don't make sense. Homowners break laws when they have someone help them or they help a friend with electric plumbing or air condititioning. Technically anytime anyone drives by a school with an out of state permit they break the law. Almost all of us have actually commited the crime of speeding, and I know very few who try to pay sales tax on a FTF sale. While I understand what Chas. was saying and that technically he should show the Utah permit, I don't believe that it is a clear cut with any real penalies. In other words its unlikely that any thing would ever come of it, and if anything did come it it, the case would likely get tossed.

On the other hand, By showing the Utah permit, with a Texas Drivers license one is exposing himself to suspicion. LEO's are a suspicious lot by nature. They could be wondering "Why didn't this guy get a Texas CHL", and "What is in his history that caused him to be ineligible?" They might not understand that the permit is legal here in Texas. Is it possible that showing the permit under these conditions would more likely cause the Utah permit holder a night in the pokey, than not bringing it up?

This being the case, I always show my CHL even when out of state where its not required, or if not carrying. If the requirement goes away I still intend on presenting it to a LEO when presenting my license. I just find it the best method of opening what could be a delicate subject. In do hope if that the OP gets his Texas CHL. It helps prevent such awkwardness.

[tarkus]

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

He's not carrying concealed illegally.

[Trinitite]

If LEO asks you if you are armed, are you going to lie? If you have it on your person and he asks you to exit the vehicle then you must either admit that you have a Utah CHL or else deny you have a Utah CHL and you are carrying concealed illegally.

I'm not going to lie but I also have a right to not volunteer information that could be used against me. If the cop finds out I have a gun, as far as he knows I'm carrying legally under the car carry law. If the cop finds out I have a Utah CHL I would be willing to risk the penalty but I have no obligation to be a witness against myself.

You are better off just showing your Utah CHL and doing what you are supposed to do.

[/quote]
No. I'm better off not volunteering information that could be used against me. Like other people said, showing a Utah license has disadvantages but no advantages. If I show a Utah CHL he might get suspicious and ask questions that he would never ask if I don't show it. If I show a Utah CHL he might decide to disarm me. Better not to show it and avoid trouble. If the cop finds out I have a gun, as far as he knows I'm carrying legally under the car carry law.

[anygunanywhere]

While I don't recommend ignoring any old laws, We all break laws at some point or another.

That is true, and I violate traffic codes and other laws all of the time. With the number of laws on the books one cannot do anything without breaking a law. That is not the point of this thread.

Showing your CHL when asked for ID is the point and Charles' post affirms the requirement.

What other firearms laws are we going to publicly post that we intend to violate and then claim we are the good guys when we encounter an LEO that disarms us? We can not have it both ways.

If you do not want to go through the hassle of explaining the Utah CHL, get your Texas CHL. Problem solved.

Anygunanywhere

[CompVest]

+1

[Hos]

+2!

One cannot "volunteer" info that is the Law. That's like saying you are volunteering to report to Selective Service when you're 18.

Armed and having a CHL should always have the driver show the chl.

[boomerang]

Armed and having a CHL should always have the driver show the chl.

Why?

Someone who is armed but has no training, no background check, and no license doesn't have to notify.

[LarryH]

Armed and having a CHL should always have the driver show the chl.

Why?

Someone who is armed but has no training, no background check, and no license doesn't have to notify.

Because it's the law. It's not a good law, but until you can get it changed, you should comply with it, and smile when you do.

For the very reasons you articulated, it's a law that should be changed.

Charles, is that one on the list?

[Crossfire]

I am not Charles, but I know it IS on the list of pre-filed bills. That would be HB410.

More info here: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 92&t=20064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LarryH]

Thanks, Crossfire. I was too lazy to look it up.