Pulled over for speeding in Louisiana

[texanjoker]

Legit stop. Very cautious. Sounded reasonably courteous too.
I wonder what happens in one of these stops when opening the glove box produces something warranting additional enforcement... As the open of the glove box was subsequent to "officer safety" I wonder if that gets around the whole search aspect or if anything that might be found would just be ignored in court.

How is opening the vehicle door entering the vehicle and opening the glove box remotely related to officer safety? A dime to a dollar says this officer used it as an excuse to get inside and look around. That's what police do by nature. Disarm me and I'm fine with that, go into my vehicle with no just cause I am not OK with it. The driver could have locked the car with no consequences. The officer had no legal need nor authority to enter the vehicle and if it had been locked he'd have had no recourse other than figure another way to return the weapon.

Ever thought he just put the magazine in there without any other intention of just doing that? If he wanted to look around he would have asked and most say yes. IF that is the only way a LEO can try and make some probable cause that would be horrific.

[cb1000rider]

How is opening the vehicle door entering the vehicle and opening the glove box remotely related to officer safety? A dime to a dollar says this officer used it as an excuse to get inside and look around. That's what police do by nature. Disarm me and I'm fine with that, go into my vehicle with no just cause I am not OK with it. The driver could have locked the car with no consequences. The officer had no legal need nor authority to enter the vehicle and if it had been locked he'd have had no recourse other than figure another way to return the weapon.

I think it's an interesting precedent, that's all. Normally opening the glove box is only done in conjunction with probable cause. This officer did it at will. I see a whole host of repercussions here.
I say it's related to officer safety, as I'd expect that's what the claim would be if challenged:
1) A LEO couldn't hand back a weapon to this person during a traffic stop as that creates a dangerous situation.
2) A LEO can't very well drop a weapon in an open window.
3) For safety, LEOs need to separate the firearm and ammunition.

If you can establish that the actions are necessary for officer safety - basically the same level of necessary as stop and frisk - then you've opened up the interior of a vehicle to search without probable cause.

How do you guys feel about it? I probably would have filed a complaint as a search (glovebox) without cause. I think I like it better than being handed back a disassembled weapon.

I'm glad the officer was courteous and I certainly understand why he might not want to hand back a loaded weapon.

[Shoot_First]

On a traffic stop I provide the LEO with my DL and CHL, he disarms me for his safety, I do not do anything during the stop to raise the LEO's suspicion or anxiety about me, then I would expect the LEO to place my firearm and magazine and/or ammo from a revolver or unchambered round from a semi-auto on my car trunk lid or in the bed of my pickup on the way back to his patrol. Absent RS or PC, the LEO going into the rear of my vehicle or putting anything in my glove box is an unwarranted fishing expedition. Having said that, you are pretty much at the mercy of the LEO and I would not chose to debate the matter at roadside.

[mojo84]

If all authorities always had good intentions, we wouldn't need the Constitution. He shouldn't have opened the glove box. Getting a peak inside the car when he was putting the magazine and or gun in the back seat was enough. He used it as an opportunity to see what was inside the glove box. Shouldn't have done it.

[cb1000rider]

What if the alternative is handing back a disassembled weapon?

[puma guy]

What if the alternative is handing back a disassembled weapon?

May work for a pistol, but hard to do that with a revolver

[mojo84]

Just lay the unloaded gun on or in the car or hand it to the owner with magazine and ammo laying in or on the car with instructions for the owner not to touch it until the officer leaves.

[puma guy]

Just lay the unloaded gun on or in the car or hand it to the owner with magazine and ammo laying in or on the car with instructions for the owner not to touch it until the officer leaves.

Or hand you the empty revolver and ammo or pistol with mag removed with instructions to get in the vehicle while the officer stands watching at full alert until you drive away.

[cb1000rider]

Ever thought he just put the magazine in there without any other intention of just doing that? If he wanted to look around he would have asked and most say yes. IF that is the only way a LEO can try and make some probable cause that would be horrific.

Joker,
Probably... I'll bet your most-likely correct. I'd consider it very bad form. Opening the glove box for any reason without PC is a bad idea - on both sides of the badge.


LSUTiger, I think I'd call in and ask for clarification on the "departmental policy". If every LEO did that to every CHL it's just another reason not to get a CHL if the intention is only to carry in the car.

[mojo84]

Either way. Just some way that doesn't involve him snooping where he doesn't belong.

[Cedar Park Dad]

On a traffic stop I provide the LEO with my DL and CHL, he disarms me for his safety, I do not do anything during the stop to raise the LEO's suspicion or anxiety about me, then I would expect the LEO to place my firearm and magazine and/or ammo from a revolver or unchambered round from a semi-auto on my car trunk lid or in the bed of my pickup on the way back to his patrol. Absent RS or PC, the LEO going into the rear of my vehicle or putting anything in my glove box is an unwarranted fishing expedition. Having said that, you are pretty much at the mercy of the LEO and I would not chose to debate the matter at roadside.

I don't think your (or mine if I wwere in the position) lack of consent would stop an LA cop.

[jmra]

On a traffic stop I provide the LEO with my DL and CHL, he disarms me for his safety, I do not do anything during the stop to raise the LEO's suspicion or anxiety about me, then I would expect the LEO to place my firearm and magazine and/or ammo from a revolver or unchambered round from a semi-auto on my car trunk lid or in the bed of my pickup on the way back to his patrol. Absent RS or PC, the LEO going into the rear of my vehicle or putting anything in my glove box is an unwarranted fishing expedition. Having said that, you are pretty much at the mercy of the LEO and I would not chose to debate the matter at roadside.

I don't think your (or mine if I wwere in the position) lack of consent would stop an LA cop.

especially when you get around NOLA.

[E.Marquez]

Just lay the unloaded gun on or in the car or hand it to the owner with magazine and ammo laying in or on the car with instructions for the owner not to touch it until the officer leaves.

What works and seems like a good idea to one is objectionable to another.

Personally to my wife and I.. we would be upset and make a formal complaint if an officer put a heavy steel object on the painted surface of one of our cars. And as my wife and I are often on our bikes.. whats the officer with this mentality of disassembling, separation and putting the gun away from me going to do... drops parts of the gun or ammo in my gas tank??? There is no place on my bike to put the gun "away" or separate from me, the rightful owner.

I may never know, having never been disarmed, never seen it happen in a ride along, and none of the officers I know disarm a CHL that is otherwise not under suspicion for a serious crime and likely going to jail in any case.

Having never been disarmed, I suspect, if I am one day, I would think at most the return should be gun unloaded, mag loaded, round ejected from the chamber.. with request to load after the officer leaves.

Of course even that is problematic.. more so if im on a bike... as I stand on the side of the road with a gun, mag and round in my hand waiting for the cruiser to drive off.. now openly holding a gun...

Many thousands of CHL folks in Texas, and rarely do we even hear of reports of being disarmed..... a bit of angst looking for a problem I think. If it ever happens I'll be sure to post up, good, bad or otherwise.

[texanjoker]

If all authorities always had good intentions, we wouldn't need the Constitution. He shouldn't have opened the glove box. Getting a peak inside the car when he was putting the magazine and or gun in the back seat was enough. He used it as an opportunity to see what was inside the glove box. Shouldn't have done it.

In addition to what I posted, IF he was doing this to do a search, which I don't believe, if he found anything it would be inadmissible as it was an illegal search. That is basic search and seizure 101 as he had no business searching the glove box. That thing about fruit of the poisonous tree comes into play. The OP didn't post about a search, but posted he put something in there. There is way too much assuming in here when it comes to leos and how they work. I guess he could have just set the gun and magazine in the dirt and asked the driver to not pick it up until he left.

[puma guy]

If all authorities always had good intentions, we wouldn't need the Constitution. He shouldn't have opened the glove box. Getting a peak inside the car when he was putting the magazine and or gun in the back seat was enough. He used it as an opportunity to see what was inside the glove box. Shouldn't have done it.

In addition to what I posted, IF he was doing this to do a search, which I don't believe, if he found anything it would be inadmissible as it was an illegal search. That is basic search and seizure 101 as he had no business in the glove box. That thing about fruit of the poisonous tree comes into play. There is way too much assuming in here when it comes to leos and how they work. I guess he could have just set the gun and magazine in the dirt and asked the driver to not pick it up until he left.

No reason to be condescending. Others have simply stated their opinions and their feelings related to any LEO entering their vehicle with no PC. There have been very reasonable alternatives offered here that would provide safety for the officer and not require vehicle entry and intrusion into the glove box. I doubt any member would be happy to have their weapon placed in the dirt. As far as way too much assuming your assumption he wasn't searching is no different.