DPS Stop near Luling. Is this typical?

[puma guy]

I contemplated whether to post this or not and finally decided to do so. First let me say totally respectful of LEO's being the grandson of a NYPD detective and have many friends and associations with LEOs. Also if this is long winded I apologize. I travel between Houston and New Braunfels about 20 times a year. I was on my way there to see my grandbabies and make a trip to the deer lease when I was stopped for 82mph in a 70 zone. I was passing a vehicle and was entering the right lane with my signal on when I saw the DPS car and figured I was caught. I looked down and was at 80. I looked in my rear view mirror and saw the car move toward the shoulder and intermittently looked back to see it enter the highway. No emergency lights or turn signal. I was continuing at just under 70 and traveled at least a mile and half watching in my mirror as the car weaved in and out, passing other cars. No signal No emergency lights even though it was apparent it was travelling far in excess of 70 to catch up. Finally to my rear in the left lane I see a right turn signal and lane change in behind me. A few seconds later I get lit up and immediately pull over, stop, roll the windows down turn off the truck and put my hazard lights on. My wallet was already on the dashboard so i just put my hands on the wheel at 1 and 11. Officer comes to my passenger window and asked for DL and Insurance. I hand them over along with my CHL. Officer asks where the pistol was and I reply in the center console after which I get my CHL handed back to me via my passenger. Officer tells me I was doing 82 and I explain I was passing to get around two vehicles that had been impeding for many miles along with another vehicle that was was creating a problem. No acknowledgement, no response, no reply. Walks back to the cruiser and returns a minute or so later and orders me out of the vehicle. This is the beginning of the strange part, in my estimation. My passenger asked the officer if he can get out to look under the seat for his cell phone wheich he had dropped. Nods OK so he gets out as I exited and I walk back with the trooper toward the cruiser and while walking back she uses my insurance card as a scratch pad to record my license plate number. Trooper asked me where I am going and I say "New Braunfels." I again tried to explain I was passing after being impeded and was going to mention again the third vehicle, which was a truck pulling a large van trailer (no license plate) at about 30 miles an hour driving on the shoulder, but there was no interest, acknowledgement or response, so i gave it up. Trooper goes to computer from the passenger side enters some stuff then gets out and has me take my sunglasses off and holds up my DL in front of me and does three or four back and forth looks. (DL is less than two years old with new picture). Goes back to the computer then comes back to me and asks "What's happening down in Pasadena? Er, What's happing in New Braunfels?" " How long are you going to be there?" I almost refused to answer but I decided it was a battle for another time, plus nothing to hide. About this time I looked back and my passenger was still trying to retrieve the phone and I realized he can't get back into the truck with a loaded concealed weapon in the vehicle so I asked the officed if I could go talk to him. He's deaf and blind on the left side so I explained I had to get closer since we were about 30 feet from him. (I was pulling a 16 ft trailer with deer feeders on it) Officer says talk from here and I explain he's deaf on the side facing me. Never really got a response so I saw an opportunity to wave at him and he walked my way and I took a step or two in his direction and mentioned in his good ear he can't get in the truck. She tells him to get back in the truck and he says I can't several times. Officer didn't pursue further. About this time the officer tells me to "Stand over there" and nods toward the front of her car. I looked back to the east and here comes the truck pulling the trailer on the shoulder. I had had enough and told her I was not getting between her car and my trailer. She them said "Stand there" and nodded kind of behind me. I took a step back and that seemed to satisfy her. I was about 6-8 feet away from her at all times except to sign the ticket and when she was trying figure out if it was my picture on my DL. She never even noticed the truck pulling the trailer on the shoulder even as it went around us and got back on the shoulder. I passed it still traveling on the shoulder after getting on my way. I also noticed she turned off her emergency lights and made a U turn from the shoulder and crossed the divide to the feeder before I even re-entered traffic.

Am I wrong to be disturbed by this officer ordering my passenger to violate the law by entering the truck with my weapon still in it? Also disturbing to me was no emergency lights and signals for the most part. I have to wonder what sort of training DPS is doing these days. This was a very, very young trooper. I am probably nit picking here, but although I got the jist of "What's happening in New Braunfels?" Why not ask a straightforward question instead of being "cute"? I almost said I have no way of knowing what's happening in either Pasadena or New Braunfels even if it was any of your business". I didn't because my respect law enforcement prevailed and I had nothing to hide. Except for the time when I refused to stand in front of her car and I actually posed it as a question (Are you asking me to stand between the vehicles?) I was totally respectful of this trooper. I thought about going to court and relaying all the actions of this trooper to the judge but with the price of gas I can take Defensive Driving and be ahead finacially if I should lose and have to pay the fine. BTW I was cited for the full 82 in a 70. I have been driving for 50 years and have only two tickets many years ago only one for speeding. Both were dismissed after DD and one with an attorney so my record actaully shows no tickets or crashes if she checked.

So - Am I off base if I write a letter to DPS reporting the behaviors of this trooper?

[KC5AV]

Nothing wrong with your passenger being in the vehicle with a loaded weapon, unless they are prohibited from possessing one.

[paulhailes]

Why could your passenger not be in the car with the handgun?

[The Annoyed Man]

IF I were going to write such a letter, I would start by couching it in terms of concern for officer safety. Mention the part about her asking your passenger to re-enter the vehicle, where the weapon was still stored in ready access. Mention the part about her asking you to stand between the vehicles while a truck pulling a trailer, traveling on the shoulder, was bearing down on both your vehicles. Suggest that her lack of recognition about the danger presented by that truck and trailer made for a potentially dangerous situation for both you, your passenger, and herself.

Once you've established that your initial concern was for everyone's safety, including that of the officer in question, then you can mention being irritated, not so much with the questioning itself, but the manner in which it was handled. You can mention that, if they care to run your driving record, they'll be able to see for themselves that this is not the complaint of a chronic bad driver, and that as a CHL holder, you are acutely aware of personal safety and are a practitioner of non-confrontational interactions with law-enforcement.

Close by saying something like.... you're sure that as she spends more time with the department, she'll be a fine officer, but that you thought she had a few things to learn that could have made the stop a better situation than it was.

Then, after you have written the letter, set it aside for a few days. Come back to it later; reread it; and decide if you really still want to send it, or do you want to just let it go and throw it away. Then, if you still want to send it, go ahead.


I don't think there was a legal issue with your passenger getting back in the car where the weapon is. That said, I can understand your concern about the officer's safety. She doesn't know a thing about your passenger. For all she knew, you were on your way to New Braunfels so he could turn himself in for a murder charge. But from a legal perspective, you had already established that you had a CHL, and that the gun was yours and that it was stored in the center console. You've already established by virtue of having a CHL to be a law-abiding person......which means you wouldn't be leaving a loaded handgun where a felon could get his hands on it. Maybe she was taking those suppositions for granted.

BTW, my answer to the question about what's happening in New Braunfels would be, "Nothing....just family stuff."

[paulhailes]

IF I were going to write such a letter, I would start by couching it in terms of concern for officer safety. Mention the part about her asking your passenger to re-enter the vehicle, where the weapon was still stored in ready access. Mention the part about her asking you to stand between the vehicles while a truck pulling a trailer, traveling on the shoulder, was bearing down on both your vehicles. Suggest that her lack of recognition about the danger presented by that truck and trailer made for a potentially dangerous situation for both you, your passenger, and herself.

Once you've established that your initial concern was for everyone's safety, including that of the officer in question, then you can mention being irritated, not so much with the questioning itself, but the manner in which it was handled. You can mention that, if they care to run your driving record, they'll be able to see for themselves that this is not the complaint of a chronic bad driver, and that as a CHL holder, you are acutely aware of personal safety and are a practitioner of non-confrontational interactions with law-enforcement.

Close by saying something like.... you're sure that as she spends more time with the department, she'll be a fine officer, but that you thought she had a few things to learn that could have made the stop a better situation than it was.

Then, after you have written the letter, set it aside for a few days. Come back to it later; reread it; and decide if you really still want to send it, or do you want to just let it go and throw it away. Then, if you still want to send it, go ahead.


I don't think there was a legal issue with your passenger getting back in the car where the weapon is. That said, I can understand your concern about the officer's safety. She doesn't know a thing about your passenger. For all she knew, you were on your way to New Braunfels so he could turn himself in for a murder charge. But from a legal perspective, you had already established that you had a CHL, and that the gun was yours and that it was stored in the center console. You've already established by virtue of having a CHL to be a law-abiding person......which means you wouldn't be leaving a loaded handgun where a felon could get his hands on it. Maybe she was taking those suppositions for granted.

BTW, my answer to the question about what's happening in New Braunfels would be, "Nothing....just family stuff."

[Keith B]

1. Excuses for why you were speeding unfortunately do not get you off most of the time unless the officer witnesses the actual reason (i.e. impeding traffic.) All they know is they caught you 12 over in a 70.

2. It is not uncommon to catch up to a vehicle before activating the emergency lights, as long as they can safely maneuver traffic. This keeps other vehicles that are not being stopped rolling and not trying to pull off the side of the road which could cause a worse event.

3. As others have said, no problem with passenger and gun if they can posses one. Who owns the gun is not important.

So, sounds to me like it was not a bad stop other than you got a ticket. Officer may just not be a real personable individual, so not real talkative. Apparently they had no issue with CHL and that you had a gun, so that is a plus.

If it were me I would just chalk it up to getting caught speeding and I would pay my fine and move on.

[fickman]

If it were me I would just chalk it up to getting caught speeding and I would pay my fine and move on.

[Beiruty]

In my town, If I do DD course, I still have to pay the fine and court fees and get probation too! In MA/NH, you get a probation and no fine and no fees. Just no other speeding offense for the next 3 or 6 months and you do not have to appear or do a thing. You think TX is more friendly to drivers, but it is not.

[VMI77]

Like Keith B, I don't believe making excuses to an officer who has stopped you is productive, and in fact, I believe it can be quite counterproductive. In my old age I don't get stopped very often, but when I do I don't argue and I don't make excuses, and I can't remember the last time I got a ticket instead of a warning.

[sugar land dave]

Not to be insensitive, but the part that bothers me most is that you are passing people at 82 mph WHILE pulling a 16 foot trailer loaded with deer feeders. I've personally seen trailers come unhitched while traveling down the highway and the trailer and load breaking apart in a multitude of different directions. Any vehicle nearby is in immediate danger.

Other than that, I am sorry you got ticketed. I know it is always an emotional event for the driver.

[fishman]

I sure would'nt want to see anything happen to the deer feeders! And this year especially, neither would the deer.

[thatguy]

IF I were going to write such a letter, I would start by couching it in terms of concern for officer safety. Mention the part about her asking your passenger to re-enter the vehicle, where the weapon was still stored in ready access. Mention the part about her asking you to stand between the vehicles while a truck pulling a trailer, traveling on the shoulder, was bearing down on both your vehicles. Suggest that her lack of recognition about the danger presented by that truck and trailer made for a potentially dangerous situation for both you, your passenger, and herself.

Once you've established that your initial concern was for everyone's safety, including that of the officer in question, then you can mention being irritated, not so much with the questioning itself, but the manner in which it was handled. You can mention that, if they care to run your driving record, they'll be able to see for themselves that this is not the complaint of a chronic bad driver, and that as a CHL holder, you are acutely aware of personal safety and are a practitioner of non-confrontational interactions with law-enforcement.

Close by saying something like.... you're sure that as she spends more time with the department, she'll be a fine officer, but that you thought she had a few things to learn that could have made the stop a better situation than it was.

Then, after you have written the letter, set it aside for a few days. Come back to it later; reread it; and decide if you really still want to send it, or do you want to just let it go and throw it away. Then, if you still want to send it, go ahead.

I don't think there was a legal issue with your passenger getting back in the car where the weapon is. That said, I can understand your concern about the officer's safety. She doesn't know a thing about your passenger. For all she knew, you were on your way to New Braunfels so he could turn himself in for a murder charge. But from a legal perspective, you had already established that you had a CHL, and that the gun was yours and that it was stored in the center console. You've already established by virtue of having a CHL to be a law-abiding person......which means you wouldn't be leaving a loaded handgun where a felon could get his hands on it. Maybe she was taking those suppositions for granted.

BTW, my answer to the question about what's happening in New Braunfels would be, "Nothing....just family stuff."

Well said TAM.

[Excaliber]

1. Excuses for why you were speeding unfortunately do not get you off most of the time unless the officer witnesses the actual reason (i.e. impeding traffic.) All they know is they caught you 12 over in a 70.

2. It is not uncommon to catch up to a vehicle before activating the emergency lights, as long as they can safely maneuver traffic. This keeps other vehicles that are not being stopped rolling and not trying to pull off the side of the road which could cause a worse event.

3. As others have said, no problem with passenger and gun if they can posses one. Who owns the gun is not important.

So, sounds to me like it was not a bad stop other than you got a ticket. Officer may just not be a real personable individual, so not real talkative. Apparently they had no issue with CHL and that you had a gun, so that is a plus.

If it were me I would just chalk it up to getting caught speeding and I would pay my fine and move on.

[puma guy]

I told my wife that I would probably just post this on the forum and go my way. I guess I sound irritated but didn't mean to come off that way. I understood what she was getting at and actually very politely replied to her questions that I was going to my deer lease and going to see my grandbabies and would be returning the next day. It was extremely difficult communicating with her since she never responded or acknowledge me and rarely faced me. She was leaning inside the passenger side, resting on the seat and looking at the computer screen when she asked me what was happening in Pasadena/New Braunfels. Her computer screen was low and facing away from the center of the dash. It was just all around strange to me, but I haven't been stopped in a very long time. What I see on TV has the LEO sitting in the driver's seat with a clear visual in three directions with rear view mirrors as well while they search the database on the computer. Then when they ask questions it's a real question and there's some face to face if not full eye contact.

If I am understanding what you guys are saying - A passenger not in control of the vehicle with full knowledge that a loaded concealed weapon is in the vehicle and can be easily accessed in not a violation in any way as long as they are not prohibited? That's not the way I have been interpreting the law.

I really have no prblem with getting the ticket and as I said I was doing at least 80. My comments regarding passing impeding traffic was to put into perspective why I was speeding not to justify it and to convey the trooper acting totally oblivious to anything I said. That imparting information about a guy driving 30MPH on the shoulder would have been probably been ignored. I should 've just stated my concerns w/o all the details. I just know I've seen troopers go after speeders many many times and they've always lit up their crossbar as they entered and pursued and used turn signals as appropriate. How they interacted I can not say.

As for as this troopers's situational awareness it was one of my foremost concerns but it didn't come out clearly in my post. I got too involved in the anecdotal aspect. My first comment to my wife was that I hope I never get a notice from the 100 Club about a bad end for this trooper.

[puma guy]

Not to be insensitive, but the part that bothers me most is that you are passing people at 82 mph WHILE pulling a 16 foot trailer loaded with deer feeders. I've personally seen trailers come unhitched while traveling down the highway and the trailer and load breaking apart in a multitude of different directions. Any vehicle nearby is in immediate danger.

Other than that, I am sorry you got ticketed. I know it is always an emotional event for the driver.

That sounds bad doesn't. I have double chains on all my trailers as well as a hitch lock. There were only 3 30gallon plastic barrels and 3 pieces on 1 5/8' pipe all very secure. The trailer itself is an extremely heavy duty model capable of carrying farm equipment and was completely stable. I was going faster than I should but I don't consider it dangerous as speed wouldn't contibute to a hitch coming loose.