Not exactly a CHL contact

[speedsix]

...personally speakin'...I wanna be on their good side...it might be free sample day!!!
...seriously...was out one day and saw a truck pull up...a guard stepped out with his hand firmly on his gun...and a bag in the other hand...walked briskly into the store...I hadda watch and wait...came out with another bag...hand firmly clenched on his holstered gun...all the way to the truck...how stupid can you get???? well, I called his office...the trainer said that's the way they require them to be...when they have money...they have their hand on their gun every second they're outa the truck...

...imagine the outcry if a cop's seen with his hand even resting on his gun...this "policy" seems stupid to me...and totally unprofessional...they don't care...major company with many guards...

[k6gixx]

It may seem crazy, but you gotta understand the reasoning. We were taught the same thing, but I never listened. I can see how you want to have every possible advantage should a problem arises, but I tend to think that is overkill. It is dangerous work though. Most companies don't have any perks/programs to help guards get body armor. It's up to the officer themselves to provide their own protection and lets face it, makin $12-15/hr isn't going to leave you with much extra money to buy a $4-800 vest. Also you have to look at the fact that in that small bag is tens of thousands of dollars in some cases....which most times you are liable for. Bad situation all around. All it takes is a few seconds of inattention and you could end up dead. It happened a few years ago, a guard stepped out of the truck, bent down to tie his loose bootstrings and was shot and killed.

[speedsix]

It may seem crazy, but you gotta understand the reasoning. We were taught the same thing, but I never listened. I can see how you want to have every possible advantage should a problem arises, but I tend to think that is overkill. It is dangerous work though. Most companies don't have any perks/programs to help guards get body armor. It's up to the officer themselves to provide their own protection and lets face it, makin $12-15/hr isn't going to leave you with much extra money to buy a $4-800 vest. Also you have to look at the fact that in that small bag is tens of thousands of dollars in some cases....which most times you are liable for. Bad situation all around. All it takes is a few seconds of inattention and you could end up dead. It happened a few years ago, a guard stepped out of the truck, bent down to tie his loose bootstrings and was shot and killed.

...I completely understand the danger...every uniform is a target, even walking into a store to get a pack of gum, if someone gets spooked while they're committing a crime there...you DO have to be awake, alert, and aware...and I bought my first $125 Second Chance vest when my monthly salary was $500...gross...I'm not ignorant of the problems nor insensitive to them...

...BUT...there is no justification for anyone in a public place walking around with his holstered weapon firmly clenched in his fist...unless he's in a confrontation situation, dealing with something that has been identified as an immediate threat...this looks stupid, is provoking, and offers only less than a half-second advantage over the way cops and guards have done it for over a hundred years...keeping their hands off their weapons in public unless there was an immediate threat...

...the guard has no liability for the money...the company's insurance company does...


...I've walked into a Black Panther nest alone, dealt with the problem there, and walked out...11 people in the room...and never grabbed my gun butt...I've arrested murderers with the gun they used still warm from the shot...without grabbing my gun...I could certainly carry a bank bag in public without grabbing my blankie...unless, of course, I worked for the above-mentioned company...it's ridiculous...

[Excaliber]

I've worked Armored cars as well and I can say this. You definitely get a different reaction from both people and for the most part LEO's. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's the same job, requires the same training and licences, but they seem to have two different connotations.

The training and licenses are far from the same.

In Texas, you can go from nothing through Level II Security Officer (unarmed), Level III (armed in uniform), and Level IV (armed and in plainclothes Personal Protection Officer) in 1 week while firing 50 rounds. Field training is a few days if it is done at all.

The requirements for a basic peace officer license are found here.. They are much more stringent than what it takes to become a private security officer.

The full time police academy is 18 weeks.. Part time is about 6 months.

Average post academy field training is about 17 weeks.

Although Level III and Level IV private security officers are armed and police are as well, the differences between the qualifications and training required for private security and police service are immense.

[srothstein]

Excaliber,

I think he was comparing armed security guards on posts and armed security guards in armored cars. These two do have the same license and training requirements but do seem to get different levels of respect from the public.

[Excaliber]

Excaliber,

I think he was comparing armed security guards on posts and armed security guards in armored cars. These two do have the same license and training requirements but do seem to get different levels of respect from the public.

Thanks, Steve - I didn't read it that way at first.

I agree that there is a difference in the way the two groups of armed security officers are viewed, and I would agree that there isn't a reasonable basis for the difference.

For a bit of perspective, when I worked in New York it was fairly standard for armored car guards to have their handguns out and at their sides during pickups and drops. Those folks were at enough of a disadvantage with very small numbers, fixed schedules, fixed pickup and drop points, and lots of money in the truck. They were huge targets and essentially sitting ducks.

The drawn gun gave them more of an appearance of readiness than a tactical advantage, but it probably gave some would be bandits second thoughts. It didn't draw a lot of attention because that's just the way it was done.

[speedsix]

...remember the old bumper sticker "We don't give a ..." well you remember...Duncanville, Texas ain't New York...and we're not used to such shenanigans...here it's read as cowardly or John Wayne syndrome...a great way for a ND...if I catch one carrying his gun out of the holster here...you'll think it's an air raid alert, I'll be screaming so loud...

[Excaliber]

...remember the old bumper sticker "We don't give a ..." well you remember...Duncanville, Texas ain't New York...and we're not used to such shenanigans...here it's read as cowardly or John Wayne syndrome...a great way for a ND...if I catch one carrying his gun out of the holster here...you'll think it's an air raid alert, I'll be screaming so loud...

I didn't say it was a good idea, but the fact is that's the way it was routinely done, and the world didn't come to an end because of it, even in hoplophobic New York.

[speedsix]

...most New Yorkers prolly didn't even NOTICE...

[Excaliber]

...most New Yorkers prolly didn't even NOTICE...

They often missed holstered guns, but not unholstered ones.

They gave the armored car guys wide berth - which was quite likely the primary objective of the practice.