Subtle Harassment tonight?

[Americanritual]

Kell with American Ritual here. I'm the singer for AR, a rock band out of Dallas, and we played Austin tonight. I'm not one to fall asleep at the wheel, so I made the drive home. So I get pulled over at 2:19am. Ellis County, Milepost 382, for Speeding over Limit. Issued by 10885 - J Simpson, Region 1, District A, Area 08.

J Simpson said I was doing 68 in a 65. No exaggeration here. I come from a police family, had my hands on the wheel, windows rolled down, light on. I told him I had my CHL, and a semiauto in the glove box. My wallet was in the door, so I asked Simpson permission to get it. He said yes, and I asked his pardon, as I had not been pulled over since getting my CHL. Did he need both? He said yes and took both. HE DID NOT ASK for insurance.

He asked me to get out of the car. I did so and put my hands up. He said that wasn't necessary. We stood between his patrolcar and my kia. He gave me the third degree. Had I been drinking? I said no, I am a professional singer and treat myself as an athlete. Had I been smoking pot? Because people in bands smoke pot, he said. I said no, I do not smoke pot. He asked if I had anything in my pockets that he should know about. I patted myself down and said no, sir. He went to run my license, I suppose.

He came back and questioned me more about pot, why I was out so late, and if I was sure I hadn't had anything to drink. I assured him no sir. Though I am in a rock band, I am a conservative and tend to trust figures in authority. Those days are gone.

He escorted me back to my vehicle and gave me a warning wrapped around my license. I told him to have a safe night. I got in and as I was putting my license away I noticed my CHL was missing.

I checked everywhere, just in case, but I knew what was going on. I left my vehicle and flagged him down. He rolled his window down and I told him he'd forgotten to give me my CHL back. He said he gave me everything back, that he always did the same thing, and took them all with the insurance card. He did not take or even request my insurance card.

He asked me to check my vehicle again. It was hard not to laugh and smile in the disgust of this abuse of power. He came around to the passenger window (still rolled down). I said, I tell you what, should you happen to find it after all could you send it to me? He assured me that he always followed the same procedure, asking for all three forms of identification. He never asked for my insurance.

He said let me check for you, to make absolutely sure. I gave my vehicle one last look though I knew it was in vain. As I was waiting I noticed he turned his lights out. I turned my inside light off, and looked outside. He had stealthily driven off into the grass, unlawfully confiscating my CHL. His name is J Simpson, officer 10885, Region 1, District A, Area 08. This was issued in Ellis County, but he works for Dallas. Beware.

Kell

[The Annoyed Man]

You're the second person in recent months with the complaint of a police officer failing to return their CHL at the conclusion of a traffic stop. I would follow up with a phone call to his department first thing this morning and ask that the patrol car he used be checked to see if he didn't drop it on the floor unintentionally. It is possible that he honestly thinks he gave it back to you, and it slid under his seat. If that produces no results, report it lost and get another one. It's not fair, but life is that way sometimes.

[AEA]

He was fishing. You should have never been stopped for 68 in a 65.
If he works for Dallas, he should not have even been in Ellis County.

[speedsix]

...you're describing a State Trooper with his region, district, and area...county lines mean nothing to Troopers, so though his office might have been in Dallas, no problem with being in Ellis County...he can work into another county if he wants...
...sounds like a very bad case of mess-wit-ya!!! if it happened just as you say, I'd be in the District office talking to his supervisor with every detail of the story Monday morning...and folks wonder why citizens are starting to record police encounters...you might have to replace your CHL, but it'd be after the loooooong discussion for me...might even make the news...no excuse for the attitude he displayed...just an old fat ex-training officer's opinion...

...personally, I would have called DPS and requested a supervisor, if he wouldn't call for one...leaning on folks like that isn't right, nor should it become habit...

[sugar land dave]

This is your first post, and I agree with TAM above, however I find it distressing that anyone would go on a website and make accusations about an officer while naming said person. For all you know he may have accidentally lost your CHL card between his seat and console. At 2:15 in the morning, trying to see by overhead light, there are shadows within any car where an id card can hide. You've made an unprovable charge against an officer here and named him. I won't speak for others here, but I believe your post to be quite unfair to this particular officer and to law enforcement in general.

By the way, It might be good to drive a little slower at 2:15 am. A larger percentage of drivers at that hour HAVE been drinking or doing drugs.

[speedsix]

...the 3 miles over the limit got just what it deserved, if anything...a warning...driving UNDER the limit gets attention quickly at that time of the morning, too...the officer's mind seemed to be focused on other things than the speed...like pot...

...when an item like a DL or CHL is "lost" within a 10-minute encounter, the responsible thing would have been to stay there and FIND it...

...a coupla things from reviewing your post...you don't get out with your hands up unless they tell you to...and you should never stand between your car and his...I personally know a rookie officer who did that and a citizen lady who was looking at his pretty red lights veered over and hit the patrol car...smashing both his legs between cars and putting him into the prone position for months...officers and citizens have been killed doing that...

...maybe it is a bit premature that you post his name and all...but this was wrong...the stuff that gives good LEOs a bad name to live down...and that IS unfair...to all the good ones out there doing it right...

...p.s...get a haircut!!!

[AEA]

I agree TXDPS can work any County. I was mistaken as I incorrectly thought he was talking about a Dallas Police Officer.

[XnTx]

I'm siding with the OP whether it's his first post or not. I'd recommend reporting the officer, replacing your CHL, and convincing yourself that not all LEOs are as unprofessional as this one whether he is forgetful or whatever. Last I heard they were doing away with the night time speed limit and raising some limits to 75 so the drunks and pot heads can get home faster.

[sugar land dave]

I still think that things can get swallowed in, under, and around car seats. At least that has been my experience in many decades of owning cars. Are LEOs impervious to such?

Knowing that a question had arisen about the return of CHL, did the LEO search? How long? How long do you think he should search? He did say that he would mail the license back if found.

Where in this thread is any proof that this is a bad LEO? Is an officer not allowed to ask about alcohol or drugs, particularly if they may have an existing problem with such within a county?

Is it possible that everyone who reads this post will filter it through their political, religious, entertainment, and a myriad of other beliefs? I confess that I filter it through my belief that you do not throw an LEO under the bus for without proof that this was not an unfortunate accidental loss. I also believe you do not name names publicly so quickly even though you may be miffed.

After 911, Homeland Security was formed and LEOs were tasked with many new tools and responsibilities. I expect retired LEOs might disagree with newer on-the-job LEOs. That should not lessen the respect they are due nor should it not be expected and factored into individual beliefs.

First post or 4000th post I will always point out my opinion and am not afraid to do so or to hear your responses. I do ask that you have a reasonable defense of your position since I will back mine. If you are addressing my post I ask that you quote what you are specifically replying to so that I may not misunderstand you.

I think it is a bummer that a person can be stopped for going 68 in a 65 zone, but it happens. I don't think anything in the account given raises this to the point of calling this LEO a bad cop. I would need much more proof before I would go there.

[handog]

Consider your self lucky.

The recession may be claiming a new victim: the 5-10-mph "cushion" police and state troopers across the USA have routinely given motorists exceeding the speed limit.

As cities and states scramble to fill budget gaps with revenue from traffic citations, "not only are the (speeding) tolerances much lower, but the frequency of a warning instead of a ticket is way down," says James Baxter, president of the National Motorists Association.

"Most people, if they're stopped now, are getting a ticket even if it's only a minor violation of a few miles per hour," Baxter says. He cites anecdotal evidence of drivers being pulled over at slower speeds.

The officer had a right to pull you over and give you a warning. According to the PD standard operating procedure the violator must be going at least five over the limit to be ticketed. But, that is not always the case due to increased pressure to generate revenue.

As far as the subtle harassment by pulling you out of the car and confiscating your CHL... welcome to the ever growing police state.

[speedsix]

I still think that things can get swallowed in, under, and around car seats. At least that has been my experience in many decades of owning cars. Are LEOs impervious to such?

Knowing that a question had arisen about the return of CHL, did the LEO search? How long? How long do you think he should search? He did say that he would mail the license back if found.

Where in this thread is any proof that this is a bad LEO? Is an officer not allowed to ask about alcohol or drugs, particularly if they may have an existing problem with such within a county?

Is it possible that everyone who reads this post will filter it through their political, religious, entertainment, and a myriad of other beliefs? I confess that I filter it through my belief that you do not throw an LEO under the bus for without proof that this was not an unfortunate accidental loss. I also believe you do not name names publicly so quickly even though you may be miffed.

After 911, Homeland Security was formed and LEOs were tasked with many new tools and responsibilities. I expect retired LEOs might disagree with newer on-the-job LEOs. That should not lessen the respect they are due nor should it not be expected and factored into individual beliefs.

First post or 4000th post I will always point out my opinion and am not afraid to do so or to hear your responses. I do ask that you have a reasonable defense of your position since I will back mine. If you are addressing my post I ask that you quote what you are specifically replying to so that I may not misunderstand you.

I think it is a bummer that a person can be stopped for going 68 in a 65 zone, but it happens. I don't think anything in the account given raises this to the point of calling this LEO a bad cop. I would need much more proof before I would go there.

...the officer did not say he'd mail it back to him...it shouldn't take any longer to find it, than to lose it, given the officer's stated "routine" of "always..."
...yep, sometimes old ex and retired cops disagree...with young and old ones...regardless of which century you were a cop in, cops will argue and disagree...that's life...where in this thread does anyone brand this LEO as a "bad cop?" being extremely critical of a man's behavior in one scenario deals with that scenario...not his whole life...don't blow it out of proportion ...and respect due is usually predicated on behavior...the OP gave respect at first, but didn't, according to the account, get much back...I've known and worked with enough officers for enough years to "see" the situation as described as not a good one...but nobody's bashing the cops or calling this a bad one...rather, we're saying that he behaved poorly in this account...and that reflects badly on his peers...and they have to live it down...
...one of my most-used expressions on the street was: "Now I'm NOT the last cop that you dealt with...back up and start this over!"...more often than not, it worked....
...of course a cop's going to ask about alcohol and drugs...no problem...but he kept trying to find a problem...without a reason...how many times does he need to be told that the man's not drinking, not smoking pot...not a word said about his reason for persisting in that line of questions...
...I don't know of an occupation where there is so much criticism...comes with the territory...the attitude and behavior of one becomes part of the "image" of what a "cop" is to the person who's experienced it...any man who wears a badge had better be able to take criticism...from others who do and those who don't...it's as sure as sunrise...
...let this scenario be replayed in a retail store, for instance, and there would be noone standing up for the clerk's either carelessness, or lack of concern, or both...

...edited 'cause I got interrupted by folks coming in...

[speedsix]

Consider your self lucky.

The recession may be claiming a new victim: the 5-10-mph "cushion" police and state troopers across the USA have routinely given motorists exceeding the speed limit.

As cities and states scramble to fill budget gaps with revenue from traffic citations, "not only are the (speeding) tolerances much lower, but the frequency of a warning instead of a ticket is way down," says James Baxter, president of the National Motorists Association.

"Most people, if they're stopped now, are getting a ticket even if it's only a minor violation of a few miles per hour," Baxter says. He cites anecdotal evidence of drivers being pulled over at slower speeds.

The officer had a right to pull you over and give you a warning. According to the PD standard operating procedure the violator must be going at least five over the limit to be ticketed. But, that is not always the case due to increased pressure to generate revenue.

As far as the subtle harassment by pulling you out of the car and confiscating your CHL... welcome to the ever growing police state.

...it's always been customary to "give" about 5-10 MPH...but the officer can write a ticket for 66 in a 65 if he chooses...the speed in this case was the reason for the stop...the warning was reasonable...the rest of it...not so much...and some of us will resist "the ever growing police state" at every chance...surrender is not an option...

[Skaven]

How, you ask, can I avoid an LEO loosing my CHL?

Tape it to your drivers license. Set both on a table about half inch apart, and run one strip of tape between the two so you can fold it back on each other. Face them so that you can fold the CHL behind the DL and then place it in a clear plastic sleeve so that if you are ever carded, the DL is facing forward, and conceals the CHL. Added bonus of when an LEO asks you for the DL you can't forget to give your CHL to him/her, and then the LEO can't drop it between the car seats or into the console without dropping the DL.

[Dave2]

How, you ask, can I avoid an LEO loosing my CHL?

Tape it to your drivers license. Set both on a table about half inch apart, and run one strip of tape between the two so you can fold it back on each other. Face them so that you can fold the CHL behind the DL and then place it in a clear plastic sleeve so that if you are ever carded, the DL is facing forward, and conceals the CHL. Added bonus of when an LEO asks you for the DL you can't forget to give your CHL to him/her, and then the LEO can't drop it between the car seats or into the console without dropping the DL.

Or you could unwrap the little bundle of cards (s)he gives you right in front of them.

[WildBill]

I still think that things can get swallowed in, under, and around car seats. At least that has been my experience in many decades of owning cars. Are LEOs impervious to such?

Knowing that a question had arisen about the return of CHL, did the LEO search? How long? How long do you think he should search? He did say that he would mail the license back if found.

Where in this thread is any proof that this is a bad LEO?

A few months ago I went on a business trip to Louisiana. I had to rent a car so that I could visit some of the local suppliers. I was not familiar with the area, so one of the managers was kind enough to loan me his GPS. After the visit was over I had to return the GPS. I had the GPS and the power cord, but I could not find the hard case. I spent over an hour searching the rental car, my suitcases and my hotel room, but couldn't find the missing case. I assumed that I must have dropped it at night when getting out of the car so I searched the parking lot and went to the hotel lost and found. Even after all of this searching I since couldn't find the lost case.

I was very embarrassed and finally told the manager of the loss and offered to pay him for it. He checked the price at the local WalMart and I gave him a check. About a week later I got a call from the rental car company saying that they had found the GPS case while cleaning the car.

My point is that the GPS case is much bigger than a CHL and can be easily lost in a vehicle.