Field sobriety test
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Re: Field sobriety test
I know way too many college kids who have no qualms about going to the bar, getting wasted, and driving home. Even to the point of assertively telling my gf at the time (who was only 20, but was allowed to drink at a bar where she had friends working) to, "Just do it, don't worry about. I've been so wasted before driving past cops yelling at them to pull me over and they never do."
I also had a roommate from Michigan who said, "Dude, I would never drive home drunk from the bars up there like I do here in Texas. They have checkpoints and they don't mess around."
As weary as I am of the whole Nazi Germany feel of checkpoints, I personally believe that they would decrease the amount of drunk drivers. Just based on my experiences, not necessarily on "facts". Of course they could also end up being horribly abused, as most government programs tend to be.
I also had a roommate from Michigan who said, "Dude, I would never drive home drunk from the bars up there like I do here in Texas. They have checkpoints and they don't mess around."
As weary as I am of the whole Nazi Germany feel of checkpoints, I personally believe that they would decrease the amount of drunk drivers. Just based on my experiences, not necessarily on "facts". Of course they could also end up being horribly abused, as most government programs tend to be.
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Re: Field sobriety test
Fangs wrote: I personally believe that they would decrease the amount of drunk drivers. Just based on my experiences, not necessarily on "facts". Of course they could also end up being horribly abused, as most government programs tend to be.
In an average day what do you encounter more? Distracted drivers (tired, cell phones, kids, eating, etc.) or clearly drunk drivers. I would say I encounter distracted drivers 20x times more than any I would supsect of drinking. A DUI checkpoint doesn't pull these people off the road, and doesn't prevent the thousands of accidents and deaths they cause each year.
My point being is instead of having 20 LEO's at a little check point for 4 hours trying to catch those only who are drunk how about we get them on the road and have them enforce laws that already exist. If this was done in the correct manner I would be willing to bet they would no only catch drunk drivers, but a bunch of other drivers that needed to be off the road.
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Re: Field sobriety test
OK, here's my story from this past Saturday night.
I was traveling north on 75 in the north part of Plano. I watched a pickup truck with his signal on for quite a distance cut someone off and almost take the nose off their car. The vehicle then came back into the outside lane slowly as it slowed down to about 40 mph and wobbled back and forth across the lane dividing line. I called 911 to report a possible DWI and got Plano. We were crossing into Allen so i had the 911 operator transfer me to the Allen dispatch. As I was giving Allen the information the pickup had sped back up and nearly hit two more vehicles. By this time another car had realized the pickup was a potential issue and had pulled up beside me and made a small rolling road block in the outside 2 lanes of four. Unfortunately Allen had no one in position, so they handed me off to McKinney.
When we went by the Stacy road exit, the truck swung into the inside lane (now down to 3) from the outside, nearly hitting another car, and the other vehicle had to make an exit at Stacy. I passed the info on to McKinney and the truck was just making a maneuver onto Highway 5 over the new overpass. There had been a McKinney police SUV in the construction area watching, but by the time the 911 operator passed our exact location on to the dispatcher, the information was the truck had continued on north on 75, instead of turned onto Highway 5, so the police officer had pulled out an gone past the intersection and couldn't get back onto 5.
I continued to follow the vehicle up 5 until they got a unit supposedly in position. I turned on my flashers so they could identify me, but apparently the officer coming from the other direction missed me because they were blocked by other vehicles. The truck, still driving erratically in speed (slow, then normal) and drifting across lanes and making lane changes in front of other vehicles, turned on a side street. The officer got turned around and was able to intercept us. I stopped and let the officer get behind the truck just as it had turned onto another neighborhood street. By this time two other cruisers were also on the location and joined for backup.
I turned around and stopped behind the police cars. They already had two individuals out of the truck and handcuffed. I rolled my passenger window down and one of the officers came over and thanked me for calling it in and following. He asked if he could get my license to write down my information as a witness. I told him sure, and that I was a CHL holder and did he need to see that also since I was carrying. He advised he just needed the license to get the name and address correct for his info in case they needed a statement from me, but thanks for letting him know. I gave him a quick run-down on the driving behavior and he said they would soon determine if the driver was under the influence, but never elaborated, on what they thought at that time. Once he gave me my license back, I asked if there was anything else they needed and he stated if they did they would contact me, so I left and let them sort it out.
Now, to stay on topic, luckily there were no accidents or injuries from this individual. However, because of the state that I am sure he was in, there were nearly 6 accidents that I personally witnessed as the police tried to get a fix on us. Those were all at 40+ MPH, so they would not have been minor fender benders.
So, if a sobriety check-points are done right, I have no issue with them. That is, you roll your window down and say hi to an officer, and if there is no probable cause to check further (smell of alcohol, marijuana, etc.), and they let you move on, then I am fine with them. I just feel they need to make sure there is a reason to further ask for ID and personal information if there is no reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
I was traveling north on 75 in the north part of Plano. I watched a pickup truck with his signal on for quite a distance cut someone off and almost take the nose off their car. The vehicle then came back into the outside lane slowly as it slowed down to about 40 mph and wobbled back and forth across the lane dividing line. I called 911 to report a possible DWI and got Plano. We were crossing into Allen so i had the 911 operator transfer me to the Allen dispatch. As I was giving Allen the information the pickup had sped back up and nearly hit two more vehicles. By this time another car had realized the pickup was a potential issue and had pulled up beside me and made a small rolling road block in the outside 2 lanes of four. Unfortunately Allen had no one in position, so they handed me off to McKinney.
When we went by the Stacy road exit, the truck swung into the inside lane (now down to 3) from the outside, nearly hitting another car, and the other vehicle had to make an exit at Stacy. I passed the info on to McKinney and the truck was just making a maneuver onto Highway 5 over the new overpass. There had been a McKinney police SUV in the construction area watching, but by the time the 911 operator passed our exact location on to the dispatcher, the information was the truck had continued on north on 75, instead of turned onto Highway 5, so the police officer had pulled out an gone past the intersection and couldn't get back onto 5.
I continued to follow the vehicle up 5 until they got a unit supposedly in position. I turned on my flashers so they could identify me, but apparently the officer coming from the other direction missed me because they were blocked by other vehicles. The truck, still driving erratically in speed (slow, then normal) and drifting across lanes and making lane changes in front of other vehicles, turned on a side street. The officer got turned around and was able to intercept us. I stopped and let the officer get behind the truck just as it had turned onto another neighborhood street. By this time two other cruisers were also on the location and joined for backup.
I turned around and stopped behind the police cars. They already had two individuals out of the truck and handcuffed. I rolled my passenger window down and one of the officers came over and thanked me for calling it in and following. He asked if he could get my license to write down my information as a witness. I told him sure, and that I was a CHL holder and did he need to see that also since I was carrying. He advised he just needed the license to get the name and address correct for his info in case they needed a statement from me, but thanks for letting him know. I gave him a quick run-down on the driving behavior and he said they would soon determine if the driver was under the influence, but never elaborated, on what they thought at that time. Once he gave me my license back, I asked if there was anything else they needed and he stated if they did they would contact me, so I left and let them sort it out.
Now, to stay on topic, luckily there were no accidents or injuries from this individual. However, because of the state that I am sure he was in, there were nearly 6 accidents that I personally witnessed as the police tried to get a fix on us. Those were all at 40+ MPH, so they would not have been minor fender benders.
So, if a sobriety check-points are done right, I have no issue with them. That is, you roll your window down and say hi to an officer, and if there is no probable cause to check further (smell of alcohol, marijuana, etc.), and they let you move on, then I am fine with them. I just feel they need to make sure there is a reason to further ask for ID and personal information if there is no reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: Field sobriety test
After all of that time and effort, I would have just shot out the tires.Keith B wrote:OK, here's my story from this past Saturday night.
Seriously, this shows how a person with or without a CHL can help law enforcement without trying to be a Batman. Good job Keith!
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Re: Field sobriety test
Maybe there weren't officers available sooner because they were busy at checkpoints.
In addition to the drunks, I would like to see the cops arrest people driving without licenses and insurance. That's a big problem in the Houston area.
In addition to the drunks, I would like to see the cops arrest people driving without licenses and insurance. That's a big problem in the Houston area.
I believe the basic political division in this country is not between liberals and conservatives but between those who believe that they should have a say in the personal lives of strangers and those who do not.
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Re: Field sobriety test
I was told that when a person's license is suspended, the notice is sent via standard mail. When a person is arrested for driving on a suspended license, any decent attorney argues that they have no proof of receipt of the notice of suspension and get the person off. It happened often enough that the DAs kicked it back out that the police stopped arresting for it.Ameer wrote:Maybe there weren't officers available sooner because they were busy at checkpoints.
In addition to the drunks, I would like to see the cops arrest people driving without licenses and insurance. That's a big problem in the Houston area.
However, there's no standard indication that legal proof of receipt of notice has been obtained, either. They might have written, audio, and video notice on file from a previous arrest, but a new officer stopping them and finding them driving on a suspended license doesn't know it and treats them the same way and lets them go.
I'm of the opinion that the police officer has proof of notice being given via the dash cam and the person driving off is grounds to stop and arrest them immediately, but the police apparently disagree. I didn't get an explanation on why, but my guess would be it isn't worth the hassle. I know a number of depts are now using point quotas where the traffic officer has to get so many points per hour and different types of activities have different point values. Misdemeanor arrests are low in points but high in time and paperwork. It isn't worth it to them.
I'm curious to hear from law enforcement what their experience is.
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Re: Field sobriety test
Yours had a much better ending than the one I followed for over 30 miles and could not get a single officer to respond.Keith B wrote:OK, here's my story from this past Saturday night.
I was traveling north on 75 in the north part of Plano. I watched a pickup truck with his signal on for quite a distance cut someone off and almost take the nose off their car. The vehicle then came back into the outside lane slowly as it slowed down to about 40 mph and wobbled back and forth across the lane dividing line. I called 911 to report a possible DWI and got Plano. We were crossing into Allen so i had the 911 operator transfer me to the Allen dispatch. As I was giving Allen the information the pickup had sped back up and nearly hit two more vehicles. By this time another car had realized the pickup was a potential issue and had pulled up beside me and made a small rolling road block in the outside 2 lanes of four. Unfortunately Allen had no one in position, so they handed me off to McKinney.
When we went by the Stacy road exit, the truck swung into the inside lane (now down to 3) from the outside, nearly hitting another car, and the other vehicle had to make an exit at Stacy. I passed the info on to McKinney and the truck was just making a maneuver onto Highway 5 over the new overpass. There had been a McKinney police SUV in the construction area watching, but by the time the 911 operator passed our exact location on to the dispatcher, the information was the truck had continued on north on 75, instead of turned onto Highway 5, so the police officer had pulled out an gone past the intersection and couldn't get back onto 5.
I continued to follow the vehicle up 5 until they got a unit supposedly in position. I turned on my flashers so they could identify me, but apparently the officer coming from the other direction missed me because they were blocked by other vehicles. The truck, still driving erratically in speed (slow, then normal) and drifting across lanes and making lane changes in front of other vehicles, turned on a side street. The officer got turned around and was able to intercept us. I stopped and let the officer get behind the truck just as it had turned onto another neighborhood street. By this time two other cruisers were also on the location and joined for backup.
I turned around and stopped behind the police cars. They already had two individuals out of the truck and handcuffed. I rolled my passenger window down and one of the officers came over and thanked me for calling it in and following. He asked if he could get my license to write down my information as a witness. I told him sure, and that I was a CHL holder and did he need to see that also since I was carrying. He advised he just needed the license to get the name and address correct for his info in case they needed a statement from me, but thanks for letting him know. I gave him a quick run-down on the driving behavior and he said they would soon determine if the driver was under the influence, but never elaborated, on what they thought at that time. Once he gave me my license back, I asked if there was anything else they needed and he stated if they did they would contact me, so I left and let them sort it out.
Now, to stay on topic, luckily there were no accidents or injuries from this individual. However, because of the state that I am sure he was in, there were nearly 6 accidents that I personally witnessed as the police tried to get a fix on us. Those were all at 40+ MPH, so they would not have been minor fender benders.
So, if a sobriety check-points are done right, I have no issue with them. That is, you roll your window down and say hi to an officer, and if there is no probable cause to check further (smell of alcohol, marijuana, etc.), and they let you move on, then I am fine with them. I just feel they need to make sure there is a reason to further ask for ID and personal information if there is no reasonable suspicion or probable cause.
It was around thanksgiving of 2001. I was in Oklahoma headed south to Dallas on I-35. About Exit 24 a drunk got on the highway headed south. This turkey was from the northbound lanes to 100 feet West of the southbound lanes. I could not get OHP, Marietta, Love County , DPS, Cooke County or Gainesville PD to respond to take this yahoo off the road. And I followed him until he stopped at a house in Gainesville, exited his vehicle and wobbled and stumbled until he got inside a house.
To say it nicely, I was Highly Incensed!!!
I later sent off some NASTY emails to the various LEA's involved and the only one that even responded was OHP. And they did so quite professionally, the rest can go do something that the moderators wouldn't like me to post.
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Re: Field sobriety test
I am 100% against drinking and driving, but also 100% a DUI checkpoints and illegal/unwarranted searches.
Saying that we should give ino checkpoint for the greater good is saying we need:
"Commons Sense Search and Seizure Laws That Limit the 4th Ammendment"
Wait...I have heard something like that before.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... on-se.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Our forefathers would roll over in there graves if they knew how easily we have given up some of the rights that they fought so hard for.
Saying that we should give ino checkpoint for the greater good is saying we need:
"Commons Sense Search and Seizure Laws That Limit the 4th Ammendment"
Wait...I have heard something like that before.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... on-se.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Our forefathers would roll over in there graves if they knew how easily we have given up some of the rights that they fought so hard for.
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Re: Field sobriety test
I think they should just go ahead and preemptively get their revenue from drinkers. Due to the differences in how people metabolize and react to alcohol, just create a new license class and charge people several hundred dollars to come in and run a simulator course while drinking and give them a certification on the back of their license with the last BAC percentage they were able to successfully complete the course with. Problem solved!
(okay, probably not solved).
(okay, probably not solved).
01/02/2010 - Plastic
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Re: Field sobriety test
koolaid wrote:I think they should just go ahead and preemptively get their revenue from drinkers...
They already do.
It's the alchoholic beverage tax.
The more you drink, the more you pay,
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Re: Field sobriety test
Probably not good to answer his question of "Have you been drinking" with "Have you been eating doughnuts? Your eyes are glazed"sjfcontrol wrote:So, if you've been drinking, and don't want to answer (or lie) to the "Have you been drinking" question -- How do you respond? Just sit there mutely? Smile stupidly? Throw up on the officers shoes?
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Re: Field sobriety test
wgoforth wrote:Probably not good to answer his question of "Have you been drinking" with "Have you been eating doughnuts? Your eyes are glazed"sjfcontrol wrote:So, if you've been drinking, and don't want to answer (or lie) to the "Have you been drinking" question -- How do you respond? Just sit there mutely? Smile stupidly? Throw up on the officers shoes?
done that, almost went to jail for it too
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Re: Field sobriety test
A few nights ago I recieved a call from a driver, EB I-20 MM 386/387, in Palo Pinto county, reporting a TT/ST who was unable to maintain single lane or speed, who almost hit several other vehicles and the caller was POSITIVE that the driver was intoxicated. I stayed on the line with the caller while I performed a broadcast and called out updates on location by mile markers and exit's.OldCurlyWolf wrote:Yours had a much better ending than the one I followed for over 30 miles and could not get a single officer to respond.
It was around thanksgiving of 2001. I was in Oklahoma headed south to Dallas on I-35. About Exit 24 a drunk got on the highway headed south. This turkey was from the northbound lanes to 100 feet West of the southbound lanes. I could not get OHP, Marietta, Love County , DPS, Cooke County or Gainesville PD to respond to take this yahoo off the road. And I followed him until he stopped at a house in Gainesville, exited his vehicle and wobbled and stumbled until he got inside a house.
To say it nicely, I was Highly Incensed!!!
I later sent off some NASTY emails to the various LEA's involved and the only one that even responded was OHP. And they did so quite professionally, the rest can go do something that the moderators wouldn't like me to post.
The closest THP unit that I had available was about the 415 MM in Parker County. We managed to get the trooper to set up at the 406 MM and to wait until the TT/ST went by so that he could effect a traffic stop. The trooper was able to obtain PC (most likely the crossing of lanes) and did not request the complaintant to pull in behind him during the traffic stop.
The trooper effected traffic stop on the TT/ST from California and ran 27, 28 and 29's along with a 43 and driving history on the driver. All came back clean/clear. After just a few moments the trooper came back on the radio and advised me that the driver was simply sleepy, that he was almost to his destination in Ft. Worth and that the shock of the traffic stop woke the driver up enough so he was allowed to continue on to his desination rather than be put out of service at a truck stop.
I wish this was the norm, however many times the troopers are already on traffic stops/working crashes or patrolling another stretch of highway and unable to respond (for instance the driver being reported is on I-20 and my troopers are on US 377. In this case it is simply impossible for a trooper to transverse some 30-40 miles of back country roads before the suspected driver is either no longer being followed by the reporting party or makes it home, as in your case.)
All calls such as this are taken, recorded in the log and broadcast; hopefully we'll have sufficent resources to get the offender located and stopped. And, if they are 10-55 taken to jail! There have been times with such a call as this the driver wasn't drunk but having a diabetic condition which required an ambulance to be dispatched. Or, as of one case... the driver was simply eating an burito and not paying attention to where he was going.
There are all kinds! One lady called in to report a driver in the left lane of I-20. I asked what was the reason for the call, she responded: "She's driving in the left lane and texting." I asked if she was speeding or if she was unable to maintain her lane; her answer was: "No." But, she wanted a trooper to stop her because she was holding up the people who wanted to drive faster than she was going. When I asked how fast she was going the caller responed: "70, but 'I' need to get home."
(I guess she wanted to speed.)
Russ
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Re: Field sobriety test
Yeah more or less the officer takes you into custody and files for a search warrant stating that because the following factors I have probable cause and reason to believe this joker has alcohol or other substance in their system. Then the judge stamps the warrant....and you are ordered to submit to blood draw.
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