Shavano Park

[nitrogen]

This brings up an interesting point. Suppose Red had exited the truck and locked it on the way out. What then? Could he be compelled to unlock the vehicle?

Not without a warrant.

As said above me, you still have to provide all information you are legally required to provide. (i.e. insurance, dl, chl)

There's a great video out there that has great information on how to handle these encounters, PM me if you want location. (I won't like to it publicly because it is not 10 year old daughter safe, due to some mild drug content)

[jbirds1210]

it's best to avoid saying anything to a cop unless you have to - especially when that anything is "I have a gun"

I disagree. A rational conversation is really nothing to avoid. A simple explanation will most likely build a bridge to solve the misunderstanding. If you weren't breaking the law, there is really no need to sit there and refuse to speak. Trying to "avoid" communication is only going to create more confusion.

Jason

[Keith B]

it's best to avoid saying anything to a cop unless you have to - especially when that anything is "I have a gun"

I disagree. A rational conversation is really nothing to avoid. A simple explanation will most likely build a bridge to solve the misunderstanding. If you weren't breaking the law, there is really no need to sit there and refuse to speak. Trying to "avoid" communication is only going to create more confusion.

Jason

This misconception of clamming-up when it comes to answering a LEO's questions is kinda ridiculous. Simple questions are simple questions and may save you time and keep them from deciding they want to 'make you talk' by detaining you and taking you in. I f they start getting too in-depth, then you respectfully decline to answer anything further until you have an attorney present. Legally, until you have been Miranda'ed what you say is inadmissible as evidence anyway. Once you have been Miranda'ed, THEN you better be thinking about a lawyer.

In my time as a LEO I was always a lot more comfortable and forgiving when someone was being polite and cooperative than belligerent and refusing to help the situation by cooperating.

[srothstein]

There are two separate points I would liek to make on this. The first concerns the letter to the Chief. I think a letter would still be appropriate, but with a slightly different tone. If I were you, I would write a letter to the Chief describing the incident, but complimenting the officers on how well they handled it. I would then add a copy of the MPA and ask the Cheif if I misunderstood the law or if his officers did. Something along the lines of just wanting to avoid problems, but did I misunderstand this or was the officer not up on the last change to the law and still thinking of the previous "presumption" law? If you make it complimentary, and trying to avoid problems, you are more likely to get the Chief to inform the officers about the law and get what we want. Vinegar and honey and all still works.

The second point is the clamming up on talking with the police. This is your right and I will support you when you do it. But, as I have said before, it might be a bad tactical decision. If you cooperate when the officer is asking simple questions, you are much more likely to continue down the road with no loss of money. If you clam up, and lock the car, you are much more likely to be walking (or riding to jail). The officer does not have to let you go back to the car to get the insurance. You failed to produce it on request and can be cited for such. Many cities have policies now to impound cars if you do not produce the insurance at the scene. And, while it is not common, you need to remember that traffic offenses are crimes in Texas and you can be arrested for them, without a chance to sign a ticket (except for speeding and open container of alcohol).

I definitely urge you all to stand up for your rights, but I wanted you to be aware of the potential costs involved. After that, it is your decision.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Follow-up questions (mostly for the cops on this board)...

Is it best to have the insurance in hand before an officer comes to your window? Or wait to be asked for it? Would rummaging through your glove compartment/console really be a bad idea while they're running your plates? In other words, how much time do you have before they approach your window? (Assume for a second, no gun in the compartment with the insurance)

Is it really true anything you say before being Mirandized is inadmissable? I have heard otherwise.

BTW, me personally, the few times I have encountered police for traffic stops or whatever, I was actually pretty chatty, so I'm not one to advocate silence. But discretion is still your friend.

[redoregon]

...concerns the letter to the Chief. I think a letter would still be appropriate, but with a slightly different tone. If I were you, I would write a letter to the Chief describing the incident, but complimenting the officers on how well they handled it. I would then add a copy of the MPA and ask the Cheif if I misunderstood the law or if his officers did. Something along the lines of just wanting to avoid problems, but did I misunderstand this or was the officer not up on the last change to the law and still thinking of the previous "presumption" law? If you make it complimentary, and trying to avoid problems, you are more likely to get the Chief to inform the officers about the law and get what we want. Vinegar and honey and all still works.

Agree with this... I will probably do this this weekend (via email if the Chief has it listed). Also agree with the other comments.

[DoubleJ]

I have an associate that is a Copper (see?).
He's told me on more than one occasion that if, by the time he gets to your window, you don't have your DL, Ins, and anything else already out, you're getting a ticket. just out of principality for making him stand there while you fumble around for it.
All the times I've ridden with him, there was plenty of time to get your stuff squared away before he got to your door.
My thought is, you have time to dig through whatever to get your stuff situated, so long as you're not fiddlefaddlin' when he actually gets to the door.

[redoregon]

What?? Is he still active? In a small town or something? Seems to me these days that would be the quickest way to get in some serious trouble... digging around out of the officer's direct line of sight as he approaches the car??

MAN but that seems like a good way to make an officer REALLY twitchy!!

[DoubleJ]

oh, he's active. you dig around, out of his sight, and when he's walking up, you should be done.
cause it takes 3 seconds to open a console and get out your insurance.
seriously.

if it takes you longer than that, maybe cleaning the console out should be a priority...

[joe817]

I think that could be a Catch-22 situation.

On the one hand I see your point....to expedite any process that may take place.
On the other hand, what do you think is going through the LEO's mind when he/she sees you fumbling around getting those things out? Perhaps a deadly weapon? And then the LEO think, time to draw my service piece...call for back up, etc, etc, etc.

I for one would rather, keep both hands on the steering, turn on the dome light if it's dark, and let the officer know without a doubt I do not pose a threat to her/him. I'd better be safe than sorry, and I am unanimous in my decision.

[Bart]

You can do what you want but I'm not going to make a "furtive movement" during a traffic stop.

[redoregon]

[DoubleJ]

really? how long does it take to:
1: open console
2: remove insurance paper
3: close console

you oughtta have that done before he/she even gets out of the patrol car.

I agree, digging around while the Cop (see) is walking up would probably have a negative connotation.
My question is, what all do you guys have in your console that clutter it up so bad that it takes you 2minutes to find your insurance.

here's my protocol:
1: see flashing lights
2: signal, exit road, stop
3: engine off, dome light on
4: remove wallet, retrieve Ins, DL, CHL

total elapsed time: oh, bout 30 seconds. the Cop (see) has probably had just about enough time to radio in his call, and start punching in your license plate in the LapTop.

[redoregon]

I dunno. Just personal opinion (that I suspect many might agree with) that from the moment I stop my vehicle, I'm not gonna reach, rummage around, or pull anything out until the LEO can clearly see what I'm going for.

[joe817]

I dunno. Just personal opinion (that I suspect many might agree with) that from the moment I stop my vehicle, I'm not gonna reach, rummage around, or pull anything out until the LEO can clearly see what I'm going for.

Hear hear.