Shavano Park

[psyglock]

Stopped for the first time since getting my CHL. The officer very professional - easily the best encounter I have had during a traffic stop. I was going 43 in a 35 - absolutely my fault, just wasn't paying enough attention. I pulled over, turned the car off, turned the dome light on, and put my hands on the steering wheel. He asked for my ID and I gave him the DL and CHL. He asked if I had my firearm with me and I replied yes - he asked where it was and I told him on my right hip (don hume iwb - works real well for my G21, by the way) and he said to keep it there during the stop.

When all was said and done I had a warning and was on my way in a matter of a few minutes. Although I would have been upset if I had received a ticket (at myself, not the officer) honestly he was so appropriate I would have still rated it an outstanding stop.

[phddan]

Great outcome.
What city, county?

Dan

[ELB]

Shavano Park is in the north San Antonio metro area. Bexar County.

elb

[phddan]

Thanks

Dan

[redoregon]

Just got pulled over in Shavano Park for "cutting it close" on a red light change (his wording). Pulled over in a Walgreen's parking lot, engine and radio off, window down, dome light on, hands on the steering wheel.

Officer approached, told me his name, and said I cut it close on that red light. Yeah, sorry about that. DL/proof of insurance? Here's my DL... my insurance is in the console next to my S&W .40 cal. He asked if I had my CHL... nope. Are you going to get one? Yes, I have the class next month. Well, you shouldn't be carrying unless you have the license. Step out please.

Called for backup, and while we were waiting (not tense, just chitchatting) he said I shouldn't be carrying unless I'm licensed. I said I was under the impression that I'm allowed to carry in Texas from my home to my vehicle and back, and in the vehicle as long as it's concealed. He says, well, that depends on the interpretation of the law, and in Bexar County, it's interpreted that you shouldn't carry unless you're licensed. I wanted to bring up the Driver's protection law, but my mind was a blank and I couldn't think of the exact name, and besides... the more you argue with an officer, the less chance you have of getting off with a warning.

Backup officer arrived, and the LEO told him that I self-identified as having a weapon in the console with my insurance. He asked me to step back to the front of his car (other LEO was about 15 feet away keeping an eye on me). He told both of us he was going to open the console and get the insurance. I stood loose, hands by my sides (curbing the urge to put them in my pockets since that's how I usually stand).

Pulled out my insurance, leaving the weapon where it was. Wrote me out a warning (thanks!), had me sign it and told me to have a nice day. Him and the other LEO stood there at the ready as I prepared to leave... then when I got back out of the pickup, tensed up just a little... until I did the "square card" motion with my fingers and asked him for my drivers license back... then they both relaxed as he apologized and gave it back to me.

Left with no further problem.

I think I'm going to print out a copy of the law that quite clearly allows me to carry in my vehicle without a CHL just in case the same thing happens in the future...

[LaserTex]

I think I'm going to print out a copy of the law that quite clearly allows me to carry in my vehicle without a CHL just in case the same thing happens in the future...

When the law passed, I printed it with the numbers and it is in my console with my registration and insurance. I have my CHL now as well, but I still have those 2 pages printed, just in case.

Doug

[DoubleJ]

Bexar county is pretty big to have that kind of ig'nance runnin' loose.

glad everything else worked out well, at least!

[Rex B]

I think they all got that attitude when the DA said he was going to ignore the earlier version and arrest people for vehicle carry.
Then the legislature came back and strengthened the law (last session?) just because of Bexar county and a few others that were bucking it.
There should be no doubt in anyone's mind what the law is now.

[MBGuy]

In reference to redoregon's encounter:

It's just me, but I'd print out the MPA and send it to the police chief there, along with the description of the stop (names, badge numbers, etc) and demand an explanation as to why that particular LEO thinks he's a legislator.

But then again, that's just me........

[redoregon]

Meh... he wasn't all adamant about it, just kinda expressing an opinion, and he didn't take it any farther... didn't touch the weapon, move it, check to see if it was loaded, or anything else. If he had pushed it farther, then yeah, I probably would go that route. If I did in this situation, he'd probably just jump the next guy that much harder.

Consider it advice... if you're carrying without a CHL, carry your insurance somewhere else! :)

[One Shot]

I don't hear too many stories about warnings in Shavano Park.
Good for you.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Consider it advice... if you're carrying without a CHL, carry your insurance somewhere else! :)

redoregon, I'm glad everything worked out ok! But then again, there is no reason it shouldn't have. If you only "cut it close" but didn't actually run the red, it's not an offense. Well, I guess there is a big debate about this, so nevermind. And you are correct, you were legally carrying under MPA, so that cop's "interpretation" doesn't mean squat. If it did, then you would have spent the night in jail, not simply gotten a warning. This is classic police intimidation, IMO. [Disclaimer: by and large I strongly support police, just not when they overstep their bounds, like this guy seemed to].

Two questions, and I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, just curious: 1) How come you didn't try to get out your insurance card before the cop came to your window? 2) Did you consent to the search of your vehicle? I ask this last one (and maybe it's more for our legal eagles) because I really want to know if this was a situation wherein a cop wouldn't have to ask permission for a search. Could redoregon have stated "I do not consent to any searches" followed by "I'll get my insurance myself" ? I'm asking this because there was a similar incident wherein the (also non-CHL'd) guy actually did get arrested and lost his gun.

[redoregon]

I know better than to go digging thru my console as an officer is approaching the vehicle... that's just ASKING for trouble. Sit there calmly, both hands on the steering wheel, and wait for him to ask. No, I didn't consent to a search of the vehicle, and the officer clearly told both me and his backup that he was going to open the console for the insurance doc. If he had opened the back door (crew cab pickup) then I would have started objecting. Yeah, I probably could have told him I'll get it myself but that probably would have quickly escalated the situation, considering that I'd already told him the weapon was in close proximity to the insurance paperwork.

Again, the guy's actions and attitude were all fine... only problem to me was his comment that I shouldn't be carrying without a CHL. Nothing else about the stop bothered me (except his forgetting to give me back my DL, but hey, he's human).

[TrueFlog]

This brings up an interesting point. Suppose Red had exited the truck and locked it on the way out. What then? Could he be compelled to unlock the vehicle? If he refused to consent to a search, would the cop have sufficient grounds for a search anyway? In this case, he probably would've claimed to have grounds for a search since Red was "illegally" carrying a weapon.

As others have said, it's probably time to find a new home for your insurance and/or pistol. Also, in my opinion, it's best to avoid saying anything to a cop unless you have to - especially when that anything is "I have a gun". In your case, you did the right thing 'cuz he was gonna see it anyway, but separating your gun from your insurance, etc. will solve that problem.

[redoregon]

Could he be compelled to unlock the vehicle?

Maybe not, but then he could have bagged me for failure to provide proof of insurance.

As others have said, it's probably time to find a new home for your insurance and/or pistol... In your case, you did the right thing 'cuz he was gonna see it anyway, but separating your gun from your insurance, etc. will solve that problem.

As stated above, that's what I did... the insurance now lives separate from the weapon. And FYI, I took a different route to work this morning in case he decided to pull me over again on a bogus reason just to see if I was still carrying... don't think he would have, based on his behavior yesterday, but I still live by USAF rule #1... if you don't give them a reason to mess with you, they normally can't mess with you :)