Serious/ stressing contact with Retired Game Warden

[ldp38]

This may be lengthy, but would like some feedback as to how I could have better handled this and should I call and talk to Texas Parks and Wildlife about this contact.
To get you up to date on details:
I hunt a public hunting area that is any legal firearm is legal to hunt with. A week ago a guy was hunting the same area and after taking a deer a guy pulls up on a Utility Vehicle and starts cursing and yelling at him to get out of there and stop hunting the area. Then as the guy is trying to get his deer and leave to keep anything from going any further, the unidentified man pulls a pistol out and shoots the ground very close to the hunter. The hunter gets on 4 wheeler and gets out of way and calls Sheriff.(Hunter is police officer in another city). Sherrif calls GW and they all meet up to take a report and GW says he knows who he is and that he drives a white pick-up. They take the report and are now investigating incident.
Now for my contact:
I go down to hunt the same general area this is my 4th time down there this season and have allways noticed a white truck that parks on top of a hill about 200 yards away from general area but has never done anything but watch from his location.
I have never shot anything in area so no past conflicts with guy in truck. This trip my nephew goes with me and ends up shooting a buck and wants to go retrieve it. I tell him I don't know who is in truck and for him to stay back a bit and let me go get the deer and see if he comes down to the area and does anything. I told him if he does and it getsinto a heated argument to call GW. So I am hunting with a Contender single shot pistol with a 12" bbl scoped with a 1.5- 4x scope. I do not have a holster so I carry it in my belt and pants in front where anly a portion of scope and grip are showing. As I walk up to deer, truck comes speeding down hill on other side of fence stops right in front of me jumps out of truck wearing a brown Carhart coat a western hat and blue jeans.Climbs through fence and now the only thing seperating me and the guy is about 30 yards and a small stream of water. I have my carry pistol 9mm concealed in my coat and pocket is velcro shut.
Me: Hows it going sir?
Him: WHERE IS HE!
Me: He's laying right there. (now getting nervous and don't have a clue who this is)
Him: YA'LL NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT A RIFLE!
Him: WHY DIDN'T HE FINISH HIM OFF? ( deer ran about 20yards and was dead, no need for another shot)
This is where it gets kinda shaky.
Me: (silent and don't want to escalate anything)
Him: (pointing at me and yelling)WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT PISTOL?
Me: ( now getting tired of the disrespect he is showing yell back) I'M HUNTING WITH IT!
Him: DO YOU HAVE A LICENSE TO CARRY THAT THING?
Me: (hesitate for a few seconds to think what I should say. Ihave a CHL but should I let him know that)
Me: AS A MATTER OF FACT I DO!
Him: OH! OK! WELL YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT PISTOL!
Him: WHERE ARE YOU FROM?
Me: DALLAS ( reaching down grabbing zipper ends on coat to zip up and cover gun so we will both feel better)
Him: ( saying nothing but very quickly opens his coat up as if he is going to draw a gun on me.)
Me: ( saying nothing very quickly drop zippers out of hand and throw them straight out to side way away from body to hopfully convince him that I am not going to draw or do any harm. Now I am almost shaking and adrenaline is pumping thinking I hope I can undo velcro pocket and draw my concealed gun if I need it.) ( I still have know idea who this nut is)
Him: ( he relaxes and closes his coat back)
Me: WHO ARE YOU! ARE YOU A LAND OWNER?
Him: ( short stutter, then replies) No I am a retired Game Warden and I just come out here to watch over the place.
Me: Thank goodness. I thought you were the guy that shot at the other hunter last weekend and thought I was going to get the same thing happen to me.( I tell him I"m sorry for being short with him but I had know Idea who you were)
Him: No, I heard about that guy and he had no business down here doing that. The GW is investigating that right now.
We have a short talk getting along fine and then as we were leaving he says Hey! I turn to look at him and he says, You really need to do something with that pistol though. I say yes sir and turn walking away to 4 wheeler.

Now What should I do?
He is retired and did not need to question me on license for a gun that I am out hunting with as you do not need a CHL to hunt with a pistol. I did not like telling him I had a CHL cause it is none of his business, but it did help to shut him up about it.
I kinda feel harrassed by a retired Game Warden and just don't understand why he did not introduce himself.
I believe if he had drawn his weapon and all I knew was this is the guy that shot at the other hunter I would have no choice but to try to defend myself and one or both of us could have been shot.
This all happened Saturday 11/29 and I just can't stop thinking about it happening again to someone else and it takes a different path than we had.
What do you guys think?

[Excaliber]

Now What should I do?
He is retired and did not need to question me on license for a gun that I am out hunting with as you do not need a CHL to hunt with a pistol. I did not like telling him I had a CHL cause it is none of his business, but it did help to shut him up about it.
I kinda feel harrassed by a retired Game Warden and just don't understand why he did not introduce himself.
I believe if he had drawn his weapon and all I knew was this is the guy that shot at the other hunter I would have no choice but to try to defend myself and one or both of us could have been shot.
This all happened Saturday 11/29 and I just can't stop thinking about it happening again to someone else and it takes a different path than we had.
What do you guys think?

In view of the earlier incident, I recommend reporting it to both the GW and the sheriff. They need to understand the full scope of what's going on. If this person's activity continues, there's likely to be a very bad incident in the near future.

[KaiserB]

Sounds like the retired GW is outside his legal aegis. I would report the incident to the local sheriff and active GW.

[SC1903A3]

Just because he says he's a retired GW dosen't mean he is. Definately report the incident.

[The Annoyed Man]

And just because he denies being the guy who shot at the other hunter doesn't mean he isn't.

Gut feeling? They're one and the same, and this guy has gone a bit off his rocker. I would not hunt there again until you have confirmation from the Sheriff that it has been dealt with.

[barres]

All he saw was your T/C. When he asked if you had a license for it, your answer should have been, "All I need is a hunting license for a Thompson Contender, Sir. It's what I hunt with." You've answered his question honestly about the pistol he has seen, and, perhaps more importantly, you've not revealed that you are also otherwise armed.

I agree with the previous posters. You don't know that he was telling you the truth. Inform the proper authorities as to what happened. If nothing else, a retired GW is retired and may need to be reminded of that before he screws up a current GW's investigation.

[ldp38]

Thanks for replies
I was thinking the same thing, because I still do not know if he is a retired game warden. I will make a call to the local GW and to Sheriff, but was thinking of calling some place a little higher up like Austin that might demand an answer from the locals why they are allowing a retired GW to act as if he is still active in their county. I hope I'm wrong but I can't help but see active GW having coffee with Sheriff and retired GW and saying,"yea Ed, you done got another one calling in on ya" ha ha You aught to leave them boys alone down there.
Will a call to Austin Headquarters do any good for the problem?
Tell them that I have called local GW in area and Sheriff and reported to them what happened also.
I guess it couldn't hurt to make the call to Austin if I do not get a good response back from locals that it was handled.

You are right, I should not have told him I had a CHL. One thing I learned is it is really hard to think and have quick answers when you are in a situation like that and don't know what is going to happen next. You certainly do not want to say anything that could escalate it. So you catch your mind going and saying,"If I say this what could happen, If I don't do this whats next, Can I get to cover if this happens, Watch his hand,whats he doing next, Don't turn your back, find out who he is now! now!"
all this and more going through your mind in a split second.

Is there any proper thing to say or do when you are standing 30 yards or less from an unknown person that is really haggling you and then opens coat reaches to side as if putting hand on weapon to draw? My first reaction was for me to get my hands away from my body to show that I am not going for a weapon.But if he had continued his motion and revealed a gun to shoot at me I would have never been able to return my hands to pocket to retrieve my weapon.All I could think is what should I do?!

[srothstein]

First, a quick legal lesson. A retired game warden may be still commissioned as a special warden. This means he is still an active peace officer with full peace officer authority. This is also true for retired DPS troopers (called special Rangers) and retired TABC agents (called special agents - we have 94 currently, IIRC).

So, knowing this, in answer to your questions about who to notify, I would call the local game warden AND the Austin Office of Professional Responsibility. The local game warden handles the investigation of hunting problems while the OPR handles the complaint if it is a retired GW. I would probably also call the local Sheriff but do it more as a courtesy and let him know I had already notified the game warden.

Now, as for how to handle the situation. I first want to say you handled it well. You came away with no injuries or unnecessary shots fired and were smart enough to keep your nephew out of danger. I am assuming you were able to finish claiming the deer and recovering it for him, of course. You had the option of being friendly or being standoffish and you chose friendly. I could never fault that decision. It was not required of course, and you were not required to answer any questions until he properly identified himself. In this case, I think that type of attitude would have set him off worse. You might have asked him for his ID and verified it because you can do that with any peace officer. But, I have no better way to handle it than what you did.

[CompVest]

First, a quick legal lesson. A retired game warden may be still commissioned as a special warden. This means he is still an active peace officer with full peace officer authority. This is also true for retired DPS troopers (called special Rangers) and retired TABC agents (called special agents - we have 94 currently, IIRC).

Shouldn't they have to indentify themselves if they are acting in an official capacity? To me saying you are retired doesn't say that you have any official standing. Also, if they have official standing shouldn't they have official identification to show me?

[srothstein]

yes, they should identify themselves and show ID if they are not in a uniform. That was also why i said the next time, you could ask for ID. All peace officers in Texas are required to have ID and show it on demand. Since last January, the ID is even required to have a 24 hour number you can call to verify the status of the LEO.

[flintknapper]

yes, they should identify themselves and show ID if they are not in a uniform. That was also why i said the next time, you could ask for ID. All peace officers in Texas are required to have ID and show it on demand. Since last January, the ID is even required to have a 24 hour number you can call to verify the status of the LEO.

So, does a citizen have the right to call and "verify" the status of the person BEFORE complying with any orders/directives. Or...will the officer just "conduct his business" and let everything be sorted out later?

I'm sure it would matter what the circumstance of the stop was....but I am curious how officers feel about this.

[getnit1]

If he was acting within official capacity he would or should be able to provide ID. That being said you did a good job by not provoking a situation. Which is a good thing, most people act without thinking of the repercussion and escalate a situation. The guy was probably full of it. He is probably a local adjoining land owner provoking people to leave and not come back. He may have had problems with people on his property hunting and such. The license question just gives it away. Any GW would know that a pistol is legal to hunt with and had seen many hunters before using them.

[srothstein]

Flintknapper,

It really does depend on the situation. I don't know how the courts would look at it as I have never yet seen a case make it that far. Cops tend to either not believe it when someone does ask and laugh about it or think the person is being a wise guy and get mad.

One of the weird problems with laws is that in many cases, if the officer is in uniform, then it is presumed that you know he is an officer. But you also have the right to verify his actual status and courts will recognize it, especially if there have been a lot of police impersonators recently.

The only time I had any case similar to it, I was working for SAPD and my partner and I happened to be covering a friend who was with Castle Hills PD on a call in his city. The man at the house tried to ignore the CHPD officer and talk to us saying he wanted to talk to the "real" police officer. We started laughing and told him that in this case, the CHPD officer was the real police and we had no authority to handle the call. I will add that irritating the officer who is handling your situation is not the way toa void getting arrested on domestic violence calls.

[CHL/LEO]

Since last January, the ID is even required to have a 24 hour number you can call to verify the status of the LEO.

Ours don't - I asked about it after reading your response and nobody here has heard anything about it.

[flintknapper]

Flintknapper,

It really does depend on the situation. I don't know how the courts would look at it as I have never yet seen a case make it that far. Cops tend to either not believe it when someone does ask and laugh about it or think the person is being a wise guy and get mad.

One of the weird problems with laws is that in many cases, if the officer is in uniform, then it is presumed that you know he is an officer. But you also have the right to verify his actual status and courts will recognize it, especially if there have been a lot of police impersonators recently.

The only time I had any case similar to it, I was working for SAPD and my partner and I happened to be covering a friend who was with Castle Hills PD on a call in his city. The man at the house tried to ignore the CHPD officer and talk to us saying he wanted to talk to the "real" police officer. We started laughing and told him that in this case, the CHPD officer was the real police and we had no authority to handle the call. I will add that irritating the officer who is handling your situation is not the way toa void getting arrested on domestic violence calls.

Seems like a patently bad idea to me.

And Steve, you've been here for 2 years now....we have probably had hundreds of conversations, you can just call me "Flint". It will save you some typing too.