Guess what...

[Xander]

. . . Oh yeah, Speeding Cameras are just around the corner.

You're right; this is going to cause quite a stir, even in Austin. I recall years ago being told by a lawyer that specialized in traffic tickets in Houston (and me makes a ton of money too) telling me that state law mandates speed limits to be set by measuring the average speed of traffic, then applying a certain percentage. As I recall, he even gave me the section of the Code, but that was at least 15 years ago. Does anyone know if this is still true and, if so, where is it in the Transportation Code? If this is still the law, I'm going to be busy sending out Open Records Requests for the required studies.

Chas.

It is called the 85th percentile rule. The DoT uses that to 'supposedly' set the speed limit. Here is a link describing it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit and the link to the TAC http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... h=25&rl=23

That isn't the law though....Only the process defined to standardize how speed studies are done so that speed limits are set consistently.

There are several sections of law that are in play here, and I think this is what the lawyer Charles mentioned was leading toward.

Prima facie speed limits in Texas for all different types of roads are set in TC §545.352(b). When a new road is built, the appropriate speed limit will be determined by this section of the code, no study required. Where a study comes in is if the Texas Transportation Commission wants to *change* the speed limit on a highway, they must use a study conforming to the process you linked to to prove that the prima facie speed limit set by TC §545.352(b) is inappropriate for that highway. (TC §545.353) Studies aren't always required though....Farm to market roads can have their speed limits lowered based on public opinion, for instance. (TC §545.3535) The Tollway Authority also needs to perform studies to change speedlimits on the turnpikes (TC §545.354) and I'm sure that there are some other variations on the theme...I haven't gone over all of the code in any detail.

My IANAL overview.

[srothstein]

Well, I have to admit that I agree with Charles on the use of the cameras to gain money. Any other story is a lie.

There are much better ways for safety, including the longer yellow light. The one I prefer is to keep the yellow light the same time it was before the camera went in, but delay the green for two seconds. Red in all directions for two seconds. People will get used to the longer yellow (I think) and after a while the rate of red light runners would creep back up. The delay before green solves that.

And to calm everyone's mind on the speed cameras, they are not just around the corner in Texas any longer. The last legislature, when they finally made red light cameras legal, made the speed cameras illegal.

EDIT: Looking at this more closely, I think a County might be able to get away with it, and the state certainly could. It is not as sure as I thought.

Transportation Code Section 542.2035. LIMITATION ON MUNICIPALITIES.
(a) A municipality may not implement or operate an automated traffic control system with respect to a highway or street under its jurisdiction for the purpose of enforcing compliance with posted speed limits. The attorney general shall enforce this subsection.
(b) In this section, "automated traffic control system" means a photographic device, radar device, laser device, or other electrical or mechanical device designed to:
(1) record the speed of a motor vehicle; and
(2) obtain one or more photographs or other recorded images of: (A) the vehicle;
(B) the license plate attached to the vehicle;
or
(C) the operator of the vehicle

[KBCraig]

... you'll have a video that you can review (assuming they even bother to try and ticket you in the first place) that will allow you to prove that you were already in the intersection before the light turned red.

Isn't sitting in the intersection when you can't procede, still Failure To Yield?

I know that one of my pet peeves --people who pull out half a car length beyond the stop line-- is the same as running a red light.

[Rugrash]

I thought I got nabbed about a month ago (right turn cam) at westheimer and 610. I even saw the flash. I waited and waited for that ticket to arrive but it never did. What makes me nervous is that they don't come certified. With that in mind if I ever get pulled over for anything else it could show up and possibly turn into a warrant...right??? I got busted in Bethesda, MD about 5 years ago. They were using them all over the place and guess what...there was an increase in rear end collisions.

-Rug

[Owens]

Lubbock is going rounds with "those" camera too. After 6 months, some results in... increased carnage at the 'protected' intersections. My prediction... they will come down, but who really knows.

[Glock 23]

ive seen these cameras light up cars that are going perpendicular to the light. They turn right on their own green light, and still get lit up.
These cameras dont look very programmed. One by my house will flash 3 or 4 times when no one is in the intersection...its gonna blind someone and cause an accident, not prevent one.

The one by my house, is the biggest money making camera in arlington.

[DoubleJ]

ya'll can hit an orange at 500 yards, right?

's all I'm saying......

[Lucky45]

Oh yeah, Speeding Cameras are just around the corner. You think that Red Light Cameras cause controversy, just wait until speeding cameras start going up all around the state.

You think that is bad...I was going through New Mexico recently and I passed a sign at 90mph that said something to the effect that "speed was being monitored by aerial vehicles." I was shocked and kept looking out and up for a helicopter or a drone to swoop down and take a picture of my vehicle. This just reminded of what Houston PD was testing lately with aerial drones. Imagine getting a ticket from an unmanned drone. LOL.

[Liko81]

Lubbock is going rounds with "those" camera too. After 6 months, some results in... increased carnage at the 'protected' intersections. My prediction... they will come down, but who really knows.

lol. I spent 5 years in Lubbock traffic. There aren't many traffic jams, but only because nobody stops for red lights. If you slow to a stop when the light turns yellow, prepare to be rear-ended.

[stevie_d_64]

ya'll can hit an orange at 500 yards, right?

's all I'm saying......

Yeah, but the juice has a bit of a metallic taste to it...

[nitrogen]

When I lived in Arizona, the judiciary there helped neuter the speed and red light cameras.
They said that the photo had to positively identify you before a ticket could be issued. If you could not be positively identified, then you could not be compelled (4th amendment rights) to name who was driving at the time.

Also, speed camera and red light cameras would not count as moving violations.

As well, when you get the notifications in the mail, you could "ignore" them, as there was no proof you received them. The PD would either have to send them certified mail, or serve you. Which I know for a fact that at least Scottsdale PD rarely did, at least in the case of my father.

I'd be interested to know if Texas feels similarly about this.

[rm9792]

B8 and Telephone Rd arent on any list I could find of red light cameras. They are just traffic control cameras.

[Charles L. Cotton]

When I lived in Arizona, the judiciary there helped neuter the speed and red light cameras.
They said that the photo had to positively identify you before a ticket could be issued. If you could not be positively identified, then you could not be compelled (4th amendment rights) to name who was driving at the time.

Also, speed camera and red light cameras would not count as moving violations.

As well, when you get the notifications in the mail, you could "ignore" them, as there was no proof you received them. The PD would either have to send them certified mail, or serve you. Which I know for a fact that at least Scottsdale PD rarely did, at least in the case of my father.

I'd be interested to know if Texas feels similarly about this.

Video and photos aren't the evidence they used to be. After all, I saw Forrest Gump shake John Kennedy's hand. (I used that line in court once and the judge was laughing so hard he couldn't breath. He also overruled my objection.)

Chas.

[srothstein]

I have had almost the same problem as Charles. Despite my being able to show people how to photoshop pictures, most people on juries still seem to believe a photo as gospel. Law enforcement now has software to check on a picture, but the picture has to be checked and registered first, then the data can be verified. It should now come down to the credibility of the witness testifying that this is the picture he took and it is real, but so many believe photos.

Of course, that explains why the Weekly World News has so many readers who believe in batboy.

[nitrogen]

B8 and Telephone Rd arent on any list I could find of red light cameras. They are just traffic control cameras.

This leads me to something I had to explain to my wife.

At least around here, almost every intersection has a kind of "camera" above it. My wife was (and actually still is) convinced that EVERY INTERSECTION around here has a red light/traffic camera. IT's not true.
There are different kinds of cameras.

The kind we see around here mostly are the "traffic control" cameras, used to control traffic lights. They monitor intersections, and can tell when traffic is backed up, and can change the lights accordingly. Some other places use induction loops, but around here, most use the cameras.
Here's a site that explains it.
http://www.marshall.edu/lego/ati/MallCa ... tMAll.html


Then you have the "red light camera"
They are usually on a seperate pole at the corner of interesctions.
They usually look like this: