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Question for those who have been following the debacle this session. I recall hearing early on major riffs between the "New Guard" vs the established Rs. Is this a case where we need to either vote out the old guard,or if too entrenched once retiring, make sure we put some more 2A friendly reps into power?

I get that Joe Straus hates CC or at least hates it for his friend UT chancellor sake. Wild conspiracy thought, it seems like the old guard will sacrifice 2A bills so that the Ds will play along for the Pro-Business bills that the Old Guard really wants. But that may just be me being bitter at the moment

I don't know. I'm more inclined to believe that the newer less experienced legislators have opted for the flash in the pan approach and seized on to the 2a band wagon in an effort to make a name for themselves. What You suggest could bear fruit I just haven't seen any evidence of it. What I have witnessed is members of both segments being careless with their positions and being out flanked by an otherwise weaker constituent.

harrycallahan wrote:I don't know. I'm more inclined to believe that the newer less experienced legislators have opted for the flash in the pan approach and seized on to the 2a band wagon in an effort to make a name for themselves. What You suggest could bear fruit I just haven't seen any evidence of it. What I have witnessed is members of both segments being careless with their positions and being out flanked by an otherwise weaker constituent.

I don't mind tipping my hat to the Dems if the final answer was that they were just better than my side As long as my side *learns* from it and comes back stronger and more motivated to not repeat same mistakes. Unfortunately right now I feel that my own team did more to sabotage than anything the Dems did. That's the tougher pill to swallow is that we had everything you could ask for and still got nothing. If not now when? Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

Ivan244 wrote:

harrycallahan wrote:I don't know. I'm more inclined to believe that the newer less experienced legislators have opted for the flash in the pan approach and seized on to the 2a band wagon in an effort to make a name for themselves. What You suggest could bear fruit I just haven't seen any evidence of it. What I have witnessed is members of both segments being careless with their positions and being out flanked by an otherwise weaker constituent.

I don't mind tipping my hat to the Dems if the final answer was that they were just better than my side As long as my side *learns* from it and comes back stronger and more motivated to not repeat same mistakes. Unfortunately right now I feel that my own team did more to sabotage than anything the Dems did. That's the tougher pill to swallow is that we had everything you could ask for and still got nothing. If not now when? Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

The devil was whispering in the sheep's ear...and listened.

Ivan244 wrote: Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

I believe the short answer to your question is "yes."

Consider, the legislature's perspective, though. Gun-rights advocates are deeply divided on priorities in Texas. The side whose ideals I, and I imagine many others, agree with, is "represented" in the media, and thus in the legislature's eyes, by OCT/OCTC, and their reprehensible tactics. There is a small side who doesn't want open carry, fearing the loss of business. There's a lot of people scared of the "what-ifs," those who envision every storefront bearing a 30.06/07 sign and barring legal passage. There is a side that is agitating for a simple reduction of penalty for violation of those signs. There is a side agitating for the complete neutering of those signs, and a side fearing the signs will be replaced by something worse. There is a groundswell of support for -something-, but that groundswell has NOT expressed itself as a movement in support of human and Constitutional rights; rather, I have perceived it, and I think many in the legislature perceive it, as fractious and self-contradicting, demanding that "something" be done, but never agreeing on what that thing to be done IS.

The only coherent, cohesive message I have perceived is the anti-rights' side, the side of "no." Is it any wonder the legislature seems to be "doing something" for the sheer hope of placating everyone, only to shuffle that something off to die in committee in order to placate the only consistent message they have heard?

I tried to keep my mouth shut here, to avoid "stirring the pot," so to speak, but the only "mandate" I've been able to make out from "my" side is argument, and rabble-rousing in response to argument. Were I still living in Texas, I would be frustrated, and ashamed. As it is, my nose is hurting from pinching it, and my eyes are sore from wincing.

We, that is, those in favor of and supporting Second Amendment rights, have defeated ourselves. All that is left is to see if against hope, the Texas legislature pulls a victory for human and Constitutional rights out of the mess we've made. If this does not happen, then Texas will have unloaded both barrels, one into each foot.

I'm going back to watching, hoping, and praying.

JSThane wrote:

Ivan244 wrote: Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

I believe the short answer to your question is "yes."

Consider, the legislature's perspective, though. Gun-rights advocates are deeply divided on priorities in Texas. The side whose ideals I, and I imagine many others, agree with, is "represented" in the media, and thus in the legislature's eyes, by OCT/OCTC, and their reprehensible tactics. There is a small side who doesn't want open carry, fearing the loss of business. There's a lot of people scared of the "what-ifs," those who envision every storefront bearing a 30.06/07 sign and barring legal passage. There is a side that is agitating for a simple reduction of penalty for violation of those signs. There is a side agitating for the complete neutering of those signs, and a side fearing the signs will be replaced by something worse. There is a groundswell of support for -something-, but that groundswell has NOT expressed itself as a movement in support of human and Constitutional rights; rather, I have perceived it, and I think many in the legislature perceive it, as fractious and self-contradicting, demanding that "something" be done, but never agreeing on what that thing to be done IS.

The only coherent, cohesive message I have perceived is the anti-rights' side, the side of "no." Is it any wonder the legislature seems to be "doing something" for the sheer hope of placating everyone, only to shuffle that something off to die in committee in order to placate the only consistent message they have heard?

I tried to keep my mouth shut here, to avoid "stirring the pot," so to speak, but the only "mandate" I've been able to make out from "my" side is argument, and rabble-rousing in response to argument. Were I still living in Texas, I would be frustrated, and ashamed. As it is, my nose is hurting from pinching it, and my eyes are sore from wincing.

We, that is, those in favor of and supporting Second Amendment rights, have defeated ourselves. All that is left is to see if against hope, the Texas legislature pulls a victory for human and Constitutional rights out of the mess we've made. If this does not happen, then Texas will have unloaded both barrels, one into each foot.

I'm going back to watching, hoping, and praying.

Well said!

There is a long standing tradition of respecting and deferring to seniority in the Texas Lege. Putting the freshman class in there place certainly was a factor in what you've seen this session. How much....... I just don't know.

JSThane wrote:

Ivan244 wrote: Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

Consider, the legislature's perspective, though. Gun-rights advocates are deeply divided on priorities in Texas. The side whose ideals I, and I imagine many others, agree with, is "represented" in the media, and thus in the legislature's eyes, by OCT/OCTC, and their reprehensible tactics. There is a small side who doesn't want open carry, fearing the loss of business. There's a lot of people scared of the "what-ifs," those who envision every storefront bearing a 30.06/07 sign and barring legal passage. There is a side that is agitating for a simple reduction of penalty for violation of those signs. There is a side agitating for the complete neutering of those signs, and a side fearing the signs will be replaced by something worse. There is a groundswell of support for -something-, but that groundswell has NOT expressed itself as a movement in support of human and Constitutional rights; rather, I have perceived it, and I think many in the legislature perceive it, as fractious and self-contradicting, demanding that "something" be done, but never agreeing on what that thing to be done IS.

The only coherent, cohesive message I have perceived is the anti-rights' side, the side of "no." Is it any wonder the legislature seems to be "doing something" for the sheer hope of placating everyone, only to shuffle that something off to die in committee in order to placate the only consistent message they have heard?

Now there is an interesting thought. Just because we have a lot of gun owners does not necessarily mean we have a concise, consistent message. Maybe the answer is that everyone from all the splinter groups band together for a political/super group. We vote on message, method of messaging etc... That way we can start putting forth a concentrated message rather than a mosh pit of every group speaking for themselves.

I'll tell you one thing, after this session, no matter the outcome, I'll be getting much more involved in the process and asking the (sane) powers that be how I can help get things moving.

We've had a consistent message and consistent direction with well written bills for years and it's been effective and continually moving the ball forward from session to session. Understanding the system and working within it. Understanding how politics works and using it to advantage where possible.

We've recently had groups come in and snub their nose at the process and the lobby leadership. We've had new legislators that think they know better on how things should be done than those with years of experience (like teenagers and parents). Not only have the new groups and their tactics not been helpful, they have hurt.

jerry_r60 wrote:We've had a consistent message and consistent direction with well written bills for years and it's bee effective and continually moving the ball forward from session to session. Understanding the system and working within it. Understanding how politics works and using it to advantage where possible.

We've recently had groups come in and snub their nose at the process and the lobby leadership. We've had new legislators that think they know better on how things should be done than those with years of experience (like teenagers and parents). Not only have the new groups and their tactics not been helpful, they have hurt.

I've only been in this particular community for a very short time, but

Ivan244 wrote:

JSThane wrote:

Ivan244 wrote: Are the Rs this incompetent or do we really need to look at wolfs in sheep clothing aka Straus.

Consider, the legislature's perspective, though. Gun-rights advocates are deeply divided on priorities in Texas. The side whose ideals I, and I imagine many others, agree with, is "represented" in the media, and thus in the legislature's eyes, by OCT/OCTC, and their reprehensible tactics. There is a small side who doesn't want open carry, fearing the loss of business. There's a lot of people scared of the "what-ifs," those who envision every storefront bearing a 30.06/07 sign and barring legal passage. There is a side that is agitating for a simple reduction of penalty for violation of those signs. There is a side agitating for the complete neutering of those signs, and a side fearing the signs will be replaced by something worse. There is a groundswell of support for -something-, but that groundswell has NOT expressed itself as a movement in support of human and Constitutional rights; rather, I have perceived it, and I think many in the legislature perceive it, as fractious and self-contradicting, demanding that "something" be done, but never agreeing on what that thing to be done IS.

The only coherent, cohesive message I have perceived is the anti-rights' side, the side of "no." Is it any wonder the legislature seems to be "doing something" for the sheer hope of placating everyone, only to shuffle that something off to die in committee in order to placate the only consistent message they have heard?

Now there is an interesting thought. Just because we have a lot of gun owners does not necessarily mean we have a concise, consistent message. Maybe the answer is that everyone from all the splinter groups band together for a political/super group. We vote on message, method of messaging etc... That way we can start putting forth a concentrated message rather than a mosh pit of every group speaking for themselves.

Oh, that's a great idea!

What should we call this new organization??

OOOOh, I've got a good name for it..............the NRA!

Seriously, we had a concentrated message coming from the NRA and TSRA prior to fringe groups like OCT, OCTC, CATI, NAGR, etc. splintering off because the NRA wasn't going as far as they wanted to. Instead of trying to change the nationally recognized groups from the inside, they decided to start their own David Coresch (sp?) type groups.

jerry_r60 wrote:We've had a consistent message and consistent direction with well written bills for years and it's bee effective and continually moving the ball forward from session to session. Understanding the system and working within it. Understanding how politics works and using it to advantage where possible.

We've recently had groups come in and snub their nose at the process and the lobby leadership. We've had new legislators that think they know better on how things should be done than those with years of experience (like teenagers and parents). Not only have the new groups and their tactics not been helpful, they have hurt.

Obviously I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. It is naive beyond measure for an inexperienced 1st or 2nd term firebrand House Member or Senator to think that simply because they were elected, that they are going to walk into the Texas Capitol and change how things are done. When I was first elected to the NRA Board of Directors in 2001, I had to attend a "New Board Member Orientation." (That's no longer required.) It was about two hours long, but what I recall quite clearly was the message to "shut up, pay attention, and learn how we operate." I took that message to heart and it has served me well and I serve on the most important committees in the NRA. I'm not trying to brag, I'm showing the importance of being a well-informed, effective statesman. Sadly, Sen. Huffines and Rep. Stickland are shining examples of men who value their own reputation too highly, and overestimate their impact on the legislative process. They could not deliver what they promised and when this became abundantly clear, they became more aggressive, argumentative, insulting and disruptive.

The session will be over Monday and on Tuesday I will announce the new initiative I have mentioned earlier in the session. Hopefully, it will rally gun owners an provide a focused political faction that many so desperately want. It will not be in conflict with the NRA; it will provide a mechanism for Texas gun owners to get more involved with the process. It will also reach out to many who are not currently on our side of the issue.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

jerry_r60 wrote:We've had a consistent message and consistent direction with well written bills for years and it's bee effective and continually moving the ball forward from session to session. Understanding the system and working within it. Understanding how politics works and using it to advantage where possible.

We've recently had groups come in and snub their nose at the process and the lobby leadership. We've had new legislators that think they know better on how things should be done than those with years of experience (like teenagers and parents). Not only have the new groups and their tactics not been helpful, they have hurt.

Obviously I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. It is naive beyond measure for an inexperienced 1st or 2nd term firebrand House Member or Senator to think that simply because they were elected, that they are going to walk into the Texas Capitol and change how things are done. When I was first elected to the NRA Board of Directors in 2001, I had to attend a "New Board Member Orientation." (That's no longer required.) It was about two hours long, but what I recall quite clearly was the message to "shut up, pay attention, and learn how we operate." I took that message to heart and it has served me well and I serve on the most important committees in the NRA. I'm not trying to brag, I'm showing the importance of being a well-informed, effective statesman. Sadly, Sen. Huffines and Rep. Stickland are shining examples of men who value their own reputation too highly, and overestimate their impact on the legislative process. They could not deliver what they promised and when this became abundantly clear, they became more aggressive, argumentative, insulting and disruptive.

The session will be over Monday and on Tuesday I will announce the new initiative I have mentioned earlier in the session. Hopefully, it will rally gun owners an provide a focused political faction that many so desperately want. It will not be in conflict with the NRA; it will provide a mechanism for Texas gun owners to get more involved with the process. It will also reach out to many who are not currently on our side of the issue.

Chas.

I'm in, Chas. I'm exceptionally new to the community (as I've stated earlier on this or another thread, not sure there's a ton now) but I want to move things forward -- and do so properly. Thanks for your work, and I totally understand your frustrations...

Charles L. Cotton wrote: The session will be over Monday and on Tuesday I will announce the new initiative I have mentioned earlier in the session. Hopefully, it will rally gun owners an provide a focused political faction that many so desperately want. It will not be in conflict with the NRA; it will provide a mechanism for Texas gun owners to get more involved with the process. It will also reach out to many who are not currently on our side of the issue.

Chas.

I am looking forward to this. We have to all get on the same page.