Open Carry Texas wants to gut 30.06

[Dave2]

One thing's for sure... they aren't making any friends with the way they are choosing to go about it.

Which is why I say that they must be shills. You might be able to get away with being a jerk, but correct, in court (if you have a judge who doesn't take it personally). OTOH, you couldn't so much as make murder illegal if you scare/piss off the politicians (and the people who voted for them), which is what this guy is bending over backwards to do.

[The Annoyed Man]

I cannot understand why Grisham continues to try and incite discention between groupes.

The only believable explanation is that they're shills for some anti-gun group.

Not if you think about the group he represents. A large portion of the OCT population are those without CHLs. He is, therefore, only going to support bills that benefit his populace. In the same way that many on this forum oppose legislation expanding gun rights for only a subgroup of CHLs (removal of off limits areas for only legislators for example), they oppose legislation like licensed open carry because it doesn't benefit the majority of their members.

Not trying to argue at all but why don't they just get a CHL if that's the case ? Classroom time is nothing and the expense is very minimal , they have spent more money and time driving around tormenting the police and government officials .

For some of them, the expense is more than minimal. For most, it's out of principle: one should not have to pay for a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Otherwise, it's a privilege not a right. Would you pay $200 for a free speech license? $200 for a no troops quartered in my home license? For a no search without a warrant license? Only those with a no search without a warrant license require a warrant to be searched, all others you may search at will.

Do you think their plan is working ?

There is also the fact that a bunch of them CAN'T get a CHL because they are unstable people with a loose sense of morality, and their personal legal histories proves it. Kory Watkins is the poster-child for some of these folks. He can spout high and mighty about not having a CHL because "he doesn't believe he should have to pay for permission", and that is a true statement, but the FACT is that he CAN'T get a CHL because he is a bad actor. CJ Grisham has had his CHL revoked for behaving criminally.......as proven in a court of law.

So their recourse is to get rid of CHL so that they can carry, and their strongest supporters are those who are in the same boat - those people who have no self control or ability to cooperate with and get along with others.

Now, these folks are NOT prototypical of the majority of OC supporters. I support unlicensed open carry, and I am probably more representative of the person who does. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. The right way will get you there, and the wrong way will blow up in your face and actually set you back. The problem the community of OC supporters face is that it has been coopted by a pretty radical fringe, made up of a lot of people who think that Kory Watkins, CJ Grisham, and anybody like them are heroic figures, instead of the dangerous out of control wingnuts they are.......because they themselves are exactly like Kory Watkins and CJ Grisham. And THOSE folks are doing things the wrong way.

Are THOSE the kind of people we want representing us? Not me, thank you. A) They damage the movement; B) they categorically refuse to accept any responsibility for the damage they've done; and C) they respond by doing MORE damage.

They HAVE to go, because the entire movement is being branded with their lunacy......and it is TRULY discouraging that there are people out there who just can't see it. It is THAT kind of willful blindness to boots on the ground realities which dooms us.

Would "instant enactment of unlicensed OC by act of God" be desirable? Yes, it would. But that is not how it works. If there was such an overwhelming sentiment in favor of unlicensed open carry among the general populace, including particularly among the conservatives who dominate our legislature, WE WOULD HAVE UNLICENSED CARRY ALREADY!!!! But the fact is, there ISN'T such overwhelming support - not even among legislative conservatives - and politics is a numbers game. If you don't have the numbers, your agenda will not pass, plain and simple. If we HAD the numbers, it would already have passed. We DON'T have the numbers, but we are close.

How close? Close enough that if guys like Kory Watkins would just take a powder and SHUT UP (!!!!) for a while, we still have a chance of getting licensed OC now, and then getting unlicensed OC in the future. As Charles has pointed out, we DID have (but no longer have) a 50/50 chance of getting unlicensed OC passed in 2017........IF.......we can get licensed OC passed today.

But the negative impact of the OC radicals is three-fold: 1) it guarantees that unlicensed OC will not pass this year; 2) it threatens passage of licensed OC this year; and it removes unlicensed OC from consideration in 2017. The spoiled little brats of OCTC and OCT who cannot act like adults lack the maturity or intellectual horsepower to comprehend the mess they have made of things; and so their reaction, instead of accepting that there is a time to be quiet and let the knowledgable do their work, is to double down and increase the volume.

There is a fairly significant Gypsy community in the Pasadena/Glendale area of Southern California, and they used our ER as their family medical clinic. One time, the King of the Gypsies, who lived in Pasadena, had a major heart attack and he was rushed to our ER. He required immediate open-heart surgery, and we rushed him up to the OR to begin prepping him for surgery. Some of the Gypsy men followed us (unscrubbed) into the OR and refused to leave. When asked why, they said they wanted to make sure that the heart surgeon (one of the very best in SoCal at the time) did things right.......like they would actually know.... Well, police had to eject them from the OR, and we had to rush the patient into another OR while the first had to be taken offline and decontaminated. Praise God for laminar flow ORs, or it would have take a lot longer. And in the meantime, they also tried to steal anything that wasn't nailed down in our ER. They were finally all ejected from the hospital, except for the man's wife and children. But the whole time, the others kept trying to sneak in through any door they could find, and generally disrupting nearly the entire hospital's routine.

These fringe lunatics of the gun-rights movement are the Gypsies of the gun world. I have been currently involved in exchanges with people from OCT/OCTC on Facebook over this very issue. They CAN'T respond with logic, so they post blizzards of memes, and accuse me of being anti-gun because they say that I'm "in it for the moneyed interests". Wait....... what the WHAT? What does that even mean?

Until the open carry movement tells the Kory Watkins' an CJ Grishams of the world to take a hike and step out of the way of the adults, their actions will continue to kill off unlicensed open carry; and for that, I am beyond angry at them, because THEY are the traitors to the cause — not those of us who understand that politics is the art of the possible, which necessarily includes what "possible" is defined as by people who oppose gun-rghts. This is the REAL world, and neither Watkins nor Grisham have been in touch with reality for some time now.

[sherlock7]

Very well stated! I agree 100%!

[mr1337]

Well put, TAM.

[TexasCajun]

It would be great if OCT/OCTC/CATI would be able to take a step back and objectively look at what their antics have ACTUALLY accomplished. But that will never happen. The media has personified open carry with Kory and CJ, so dislodging them is probably next to impossible. And with those two still in charge, OC is going to be too hot to really do anything with.

[txbirddog]

It would be great if OCT/OCTC/CATI would be able to take a step back and objectively look at what their antics have ACTUALLY accomplished. But that will never happen. The media has personified open carry with Kory and CJ, so dislodging them is probably next to impossible. And with those two still in charge, OC is going to be too hot to really do anything with.

Thanks kory,,,,,,,,

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[cb1000rider]

It would be great if OCT/OCTC/CATI would be able to take a step back and objectively look at what their antics have ACTUALLY accomplished. But that will never happen. The media has personified open carry with Kory and CJ, so dislodging them is probably next to impossible. And with those two still in charge, OC is going to be too hot to really do anything with.

I've asked that questions and the answer seems to be - that we've had lots of time to try it "the other way" and nothing has been accomplished, which isn't entirely true. It's also hard to measure objectively - so you can "discuss" it - but it's hard to objectively show that their methods aren't working. Active debate doesn't seem to work. The nature of their leadership and nature of the movement doesn't lend itself to strong "in line" organization.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It would be great if OCT/OCTC/CATI would be able to take a step back and objectively look at what their antics have ACTUALLY accomplished. But that will never happen. The media has personified open carry with Kory and CJ, so dislodging them is probably next to impossible. And with those two still in charge, OC is going to be too hot to really do anything with.

I've asked that questions and the answer seems to be - that we've had lots of time to try it "the other way" and nothing has been accomplished, which isn't entirely true. It's also hard to measure objectively - so you can "discuss" it - but it's hard to objectively show that their methods aren't working. Active debate doesn't seem to work. The nature of their leadership and nature of the movement doesn't lend itself to strong "in line" organization.

OCT didn't come into existence until after the 2013 Texas Legislative Session, so they didn't try "the other way;" they weren't around. Their predecessors LSCDL and OpenCarry.org/Texas Section didn't try "the other way" either; they were bomb-throwers also. From day one, OCT has adopted an in-your-face approach and the only thing that changed was the increasingly inflammatory rhetoric. (See The History of Open-Carry Efforts in Texas for a detailed chronology.)

As to the success or failure of their tactics, it should be noted that the only open-carry bill to be heard this week is the NRA-backed SB346, a Bill that OCT soundly opposes. "Their" SB343 is not set for hearing. That doesn't mean it won't be later, but the NRA bill is on the fast track. I fully realize that OCT supporters will not accept this statement, but those who have a finger on the pulse in Austin do have objective proof of the damage OCT, OCTC, Grisham and Watkins have caused.

Like it or not, accept it or not, only NRA and TSRA can pass open-carry in Texas. We represent hundreds of thousands of voters and donors, OCT represents a tiny fraction of that number and they are perceived by the general public and elected officials in a negative light. That is truly a shame, because I am confident that the vast majority of people who joined OCT had no idea the direction it would take and the tactics it would employ. We are still being asked, "those aren't your people, are they." That speaks volumes.

Chas.

[cb1000rider]

Clarification - The "NRA" has had years to do it their way. That's the standard response that I've received.

I agree with you, it's not a good issue for a "grass roots" type movement - it's too divisive and obviously requires a background in Texas politics that a new movement is going to lack.
They can't afford to front leadership that is unpredictable and unwilling to accept "no" gracefully.

I personally agree with a many of their ideals, but their implementation is too far out of center to associate with. The leadership lacks maturity and tact. And some parts of that movement are just scary.

[mojo84]

Looks like "Come and Take It" group plans to show up for the hearing. Wish they would figure out they are doing more damage than good. They are taking a similar tact to Kory and cj's groups.

[TexasCajun]

I can't wait to see what they'll do if licensed open carry passes, or God forbid, no open carry bill passes at all.

[G.A. Heath]

I can't wait to see what they'll do if licensed open carry passes, or God forbid, no open carry bill passes at all.

They will have a tantrum and act like three year old children no matter what happens. We have seen it every session, and you can tell that is the case because they are already attacking people for not being 100% with them just like LSCDL and others did before.

[AJSully421]

I can't wait to see what they'll do if licensed open carry passes, or God forbid, no open carry bill passes at all.

They will have a tantrum and act like three year old children no matter what happens. We have seen it every session, and you can tell that is the case because they are already attacking people for not being 100% with them just like LSCDL and others did before.

Oh no, it will be FAR worse than that. They will use it to say that our way doesn't work. They will say that we need to ditch the NRA and the TSRA model and get in rep's faces and call them traitors and make veiled threats of violence against them. When all along, it is their way that ultimate caused it to fail.

[G.A. Heath]

I can't wait to see what they'll do if licensed open carry passes, or God forbid, no open carry bill passes at all.

They will have a tantrum and act like three year old children no matter what happens. We have seen it every session, and you can tell that is the case because they are already attacking people for not being 100% with them just like LSCDL and others did before.

Oh no, it will be FAR worse than that. They will use it to say that our way doesn't work. They will say that we need to ditch the NRA and the TSRA model and get in rep's faces and call them traitors and make veiled threats of violence against them. When all along, it is their way that ultimate caused it to fail.

This is pretty much what has happened after each of the legislative sessions in the past.

[TexasCajun]

Does anyone think it will go beyond ranting and rhetoric?