Raven Concealment Systems

[Afff_667]

I recently received a holster, single mag pouch, light carrier, and assorted IWB hardware from Raven Concealment Systems (RCS) for Glock 19 (no mounted light) after the standard 18 week wait. Consider me unimpressed...This kydex rig was ordered as a replacement for one I've been using over 18 months from Atomic Dog, and while I did note some differences/improvements going to the RCS from Atomic Dog, I'm not bowled over.

First, the light carrier is for a Surefire E1B, and the light fits so tightly in the pouch that I cannot get it out when on my belt (Cobra riggers belt with kydex insert). In fact, the fit is so tight that I have to wrestle with the light to get it out simply holding the carrier in my hand. I shot an e-mail to RCS and was told that they make their carriers for a snug fit, blah, blah, blah and didn't seem to grasp my comments that I simply could not functionally remove the light from the carrier worn on my belt.

The holster fits the G19 well with a good, reassuring click when inserting the pistol. It comes out relatively easily, as well, and I expect that to get a little slicker through repititious presentations as seems to be the norm I've read from other users. However, the standard belt loops are so tight that the belt gets distorted a seemingly inordinate amount, and it's a wrestling match to get the belt threaded. Mag pouch fits a magazine real well, good retention, etc, but I have the same issues with the standard belt loops...crazy tight. Belt loops on light carrier present similar issues.

IWB accessories are useless to me because and I'm not sure why I ordered them since I've got a Milt Sparks VM-2 that is about as good as it can get. I was advised that I could return the IWB accessories and exchange them for pancake wings to make it easier to mount the holster OWB, thread my belt, etc, but I'd need similar sets for the light carrier and mag pouch - more money to RCS. I could get another belt, but I'm not sure I want to spend another $90-$100 on an Ares Ranger when I've had no similar issues with my current belt. I'll admit that I feel the stiffness of my current belt is somewhat responsible for the belt loop situation, but I've never had any problems with this belt and the kydex rig from Atomic Dog.

Where I'm going with this is that I think I'm going to return the RCS stuff and stick with the Atmoic Dog and Milt Sparks. However, before I pack it up for the return, I'd be curious if there's something I'm missing from local, real world RCS users. From on-line comments and reviews, you'd think that RCS cures cancer, saves lost souls, and keeps us safe from Communism, but I'm not seeing anything more than some incremental improvements and increased difficulties in use.

[apostate]

Thanks for the review. Now I don't feel so bad about the $100 RCS gift certificate gathering dust downstairs.

[longtooth]

I have 2 RCS holsters. I have worn, reviewed, a multitude of holsters both leather & kydex. I have helped design 2 w/ makers getting started.

Neither of my RCS holsters are for sale at all.

BTW, if you want to sell that dust gathering gift certificate at a discount I will consider it & buy another.
LT

[Rugrash]

I've got a Vanguard 2 on order. I figure that I'd give appendix carry a try. It was inexpensive enough for me to experiment with. I've got expensive Milt Sparks holsters that I paid good money for and also waited 16+ weeks to get that I don't normally wear. In the summer I like to pocket carry a snubby S&W with a nemesis holster, but I'm excited about the RCS.

[Thumper]

RCS has received a LOT of endorsement from some "big names" using their holsters. One reason for the massive backlog and extended wait times to get some of their products. 16-18 weeks is what they say on their website, and my first order from them took every bit of 16 weeks.

I ordered a Phantom OWB setup (along with a double mag carrier) for my FN FNP 45 Tactical (and I really dislike that word anymore, by the way) that has an RMR and a Streamlight TLR2s on it. When it finally arrived, it fit perfectly. Nice "click" when the gun is seated in the holster, good retention, yet it draws easily. My Beltman double bullhide threads through it, and it wears nicely. The mag carrier is of equal fit and finish, and it has an adjustment screw to alow the wearer to set the tension on the mags. I am happy with this setup. It works well for me, and the fit on my gun and mags happened to work out on my order. It doesn't sound like Afff had the same luck with his order. The holster did not fit the gun, which was the first problem, and one that Raven should fix at no cost, including postage, to Afff, in my opinion. I did not order an IWB setup for this gun as the gun is large and would not be suitable for IWB carry in the first place. Now while my first order with Raven went well and I got what I wanted, I will say that I am not not a Raven fanboy, so I will not stick up for them, moreover, I will say again that they should fix the holster fit with the gun so that it can at least be used for OWB carry or just refund the money upon return of the products. Just my opinion.

For IWB carry, I really do like the Minotaur line that Comp-Tac sells. I have one for my 5" 1911 that just seems to melt away in terms of concealment. Most comfortable holster I have ever owned. The problem with those is that, as far as I know, they don't offer models for guns with lights.

I have a RCS setup ordered for my wife's M&P9c w/Streamlight TLR-4 that should be shipping this week. We'll see how it turns out. If it has the same fit issues that Afff's has, Raven will be hearing from me. Having to pay that much and wait that long, a customer should get a proper fitting holster (that is, one that at least fits the gun).

[Afff_667]

To clarify, the holster and mag pouch themselves I received fit the pistol and mags very well, i.e. good click, easy to draw, and solid retention. It's the belt loops and light carrier that I was having significant issues with, so...

UPDATE: After a series of e-mails with RCS, my light carrier and the IWB accessories are on their way back to Ohio. The IWB accessories are to be exchanged for their OWB Pancake Wings that should make belt threading a little friendlier and may bring my G19 in a little closer. I ordered two sets of the OWB Pancake Wings, one for the holster itself and another for the mag carrier. I'll have both the original belt loops and the OWB wings to play with and evaluate. I have read interesting recommendations to combine one OWB wing with one original belt loop to get a good, close fit, so I'll probably play with different set-ups.

RCS also asked me to return the light carrier along with my Surefire E1B so that they can tweak the fit a little bit. I'm more than a bit puzzled over having to send my light in since they obviously had one with which to mold the carrier, but I'm going to play along and see how it all works out in the end. Again, I'm a little puzzled over the request to send my light to them...

The RCS rep I've been corresponding with promised a quick return of all items, but I expect it to take two weeks or so. I'll provide a final update when I've got all the items and can give them a test ride. Customer Service has been positive, timely, and responsive.

I hope that no one interprets this as RCS bashing...it's one person's experience (and more than a little disappointment) with what is considered a top tier manufacturer.

[Thumper]

Ah, I see where you stated in your OP that it was the light carrier. My bad. Still, they need to resolve the fit with the light carrier, and it sounds like they are willing to do so, but I wouldn't like having send my light to them to make that happen. Seems they should have a model of that light on hand themselves if they are selling a light carrier for it. But maybe I am just being nit-picky.

When I first unwrapped my RCS holster, I was a bit concerned about the belt loops on mine since my belt is a double layer bullhide, and the gun is kind of fat. It was a pretty snug fit getting the belt in them, but it was not so difficult that I had trouble or that it distorted the holster, etc.. Plus, it helps keep the holster from moving around on my belt. I am glad they are exchanging the accessories for you. They should. I ordered from RCS based on their reputation, and I hunted and hunted for reviews with problems with their products and service. It's good to find people speak up when they aren't satisfied with a company's products or service.

I, for one, didn't take any of your post as bashing RCS (but like I said, I am not a die hard RCS fanboy).. It is always good to hear feedback on any company and their products, good or bad. It's how we keep each other informed of what's going on.

[diverge]

It's the belt loops and light carrier that I was having significant issues with, so...

I've owned their gear for many years. Bought about ten or so holsters from them. I noticed that with their more recent holsters. The changed belt loops (they use to be kydex belt clips) and put more of a "curve" in their holsters. I really like the change. So much that I sold my older holsters and bought new ones. I run these holsters IWB only and they conceal better than the other pancake holsters that I owned (Kaluban Cloak and Personal Security Systems). My holsters use the Comp-Tac clips so I only have to thread the mag carrier. Mag carrier is not as hard to thread as the holsters. If I'm wearing OWB then I'm not carrying concealed and have other holsters for that.

I also wear an Ares gear cobra belt also. Just pull it through. It might bend a little but it doesn't hurt it. The main problem I had was not getting the scuba webbing through the loops but the one inch strap that goes around the belt. Since it was a tight fit sometimes the strap would be left behind. It is easier to thread my Wilderness instructor belt vs the double scuba webbing Ares belt.

I've owned a light pouch for my E2DL. Don't remember the retention being too difficult. It is holding the light by only by the bezel so you don't want the retention too loose. Sounds like you could hit it with a hair dyer to get the retention where you want it.

Between the RCS, KC, and PSS holsters that I owned there wasn't a huge difference. It was just little things that steered me toward RCS.

[Afff_667]

I thought I should update this following my receipt of the replacement items ordered from RCS and a couple of month's wear with the system...

First, I received my reshaped light carrier and OWB wings just a little over two weeks from placing the order, and my Surefire seemed no worse for wear when returned. RCS reshaped or otherwise corrected the fit of my E1B in their light carrier such that the "after" fit is much better and shows me clearly that it came incorrectly molded or adjusted from RCS. RCS didn't pick up the return shipping, so I'm going to ding them a bit for that one.

The OWB pancake wings may be mounted in a variety of ways, so I've been playing with them constantly to find what works best; I'm still not there. The RCS web site provides information on various mounting methods/locations for the wings, so please review that if you're considering RCS. I've been considering the soft OWB wings from either RCS or another manufacturer to see what happens...

I should also add that I drank a little more Koolaid and purchased an Ares Ranger Belt since that particular item and RCS holsters are usually mentioned in the same sentence. The belt is nothing short of awesome and did absolutely nothing to impact the issues I'm having with concealability of the Phantom and G19.

Bottom line:
In all honesty, I'm not too impressed. I think, however, the majority of those feeligns may be my own fault for expecting the ultimate holster. I can't put my finger on it, but I expected to be much happier and impressed with the functionality of this gear. Fit and finish are perfect, but I'm not happy with the level of concealment I get with the Phantom and the various configurations used with the OWB pancake wings. It always seems like the butt of my G19 sticks out further than it should and is screaming, "GUN!!" to the world. Please understand that I'm not new to concealed carry, so I am over the typical new-guy apprehensions and concerns about carrying. I've carried OWB with another kydex holster and had none of these misgivings or issues.

The mag and light carriers are completely functional, well made, and do what they're supposed to do. The light carrier is a welcome addition but certainly makes me feel like Batman with a utility belt when worn with the holster and mag carrier. Forget adding anything else (cool guy tool, carbine mag carrier, etc). In fact, I've started pocket carrying the E1B to keep it off my belt.

I'm thinking going for leather OWB and offsetting that purchase by selling the RCS items. I'll give myself through the holidays to sort out the issues, but I'm not encouraged. I realize it may be me that's the problem, so consider this one guy's experience only.

[carlson1]

I have 2 RCS holsters. I have worn, reviewed, a multitude of holsters both leather & kydex. I have helped design 2 w/ makers getting started.

Neither of my RCS holsters are for sale at all.

BTW, if you want to sell that dust gathering gift certificate at a discount I will consider it & buy another.
LT

I only have one and it for my G-23 and my G-19. I bought the straps so I could use it as an IWB holster. I love mine.

I bought mine under the "Quick-Ship" and it did not take long at all. I did notice people are selling them on EBAY for around 100% mark up.

I would mine getting another for a spare.