TexasCHLforum.com

As some of you know, my wife is steadfastly against obtaining a CHL for herself, doesn't "like guns" etc., but because she loves me she accepts my CHL and all that goes with it.

However, we have talked a number of times about what she would do in a "bad situation" and have both agreed it would be beneficial for us to take some basic personal defense classes together. Don't have the time/inclination for in-depth training like Krav Maga or whatever the latest "must have" unarmed defense training is these days. Just looking for good, realistic self defense training for "average folks" that focuses on awareness, avoidance, and perhaps some very basic skills to repel an attack WITHOUT a firearm.

We'd like to take the class together so we can then help each other practice and maintain the training and skills we learn. But if there is a "women's only" course that could also be an option for just her to take.

Goes without saying, of course, that money and time are tight as they are for most folks with young children. But one night a week for a few weeks probably works (assuming we can secure child care for those times). Or if something really worthwhile is available for a one-day weekend class in Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio areas we'd probably be willing to travel and have family/friends who can watch the kids in those cities.

Anyway, does anyone have recommendations for the Austin area? Quick Google search found these folks: http://austinselfdefense.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But perusing their web site I found this link http://www.austinselfdefense.com/womens ... ense-tips/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and was turned off by this statement contained within:

HANDGUNS
In most cases, a weapon will not do you any good and may, in fact, cause you great harm. Having a weapon is more likely to increase the danger to you and your loved ones than it is to protect you from a criminal. However, if you do have a firearm in your home, keep it locked and out of reach from curious children. If you hear an intruder, never investigate with gun in hand. Lock yourself and your family in a safe room and call the
police.

really like how they say to "find something to use as a weapon" then basically talk about the best last-ditch efforts to repel nose-to-nose proximity attack by going for eyes, groin etc., all the while completely dismissing the tool that can allow someone to repel an attack from a safer DISTANCE.

But I digress.

Anyway, appreciate any and all suggestions.

I was browsing and thinking that sounded like something John Woods would write.
He once said he lost 2 Martial Arts students at Virginia Tech.
IIRC, V.T. occurred April 16, 2007.
But John taught as Assistant instructor
Khan's Martial Arts Academy
December 2004 — August 2006 (1 year 9 months)
So, perhaps he left off something somewhere either on a Resume or 1040 form with the I.R.S. or made an error on the dates about his "students" or actually meant "former students" ... I dunno ...

Anyway sorry to go sideways on the topic, but John Wood's CURRENT martial arts instructor in Austin has his CHL ... Dunno who his current instructor is but ...

point is ... Some place in Austin shouldn't be anti-gun (If you find where John trains)


But yeah, stay away from the "schools that teach only 'competition'" and look for "self-defense"

Lookie here I "Googled" "austin women's self-defense"

Got these and more
http://www.femaleselfdefense.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We currently train thousands of women in small classes, seminars and private lessons in defense systems such as: Israeli Krav Maga and American combatitives, Personal Defense Readiness (PDR), and others, handgun instruction, deployment and concealed handgun licensing, Taser devices and deployment, use of OC spray and more. We recognize that every woman has a different challenge and therefore we offer many options to keep you safe.

Austin School
http://www.femaleselfdefense.com/womens ... ontact.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know anything about them, other than what you see .... just trying to let you know that not all martial arts/self-defense places are anti-weapon. Some show options and she can decide.

Others are

http://www.summitselfdefense.com/shooti ... austin.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Women's self defense training and classes (private lessons, small groups or organizations)

* Personal Defense Readiness (PDR)
* Commando Krav Maga
* Hand-to-hand training (advanced techniques)
* Scenario/ situational training for real life
* car jacking, robbery, rape prevention, home invasion, hotel room attack, parking lot, atm machine, etc.
* Taser use, instruction and sales
* Handgun training, deployment, home and car defense and Texas Concealed Handgun Licensing (CHL)
* OC/ Mace training and sales
* Girls and young women self-defense in small groups
* Use of force lecture - when, where, how, why to use self defense
* legal issues/ considerations
* Corporate seminars - On-site, fun and team building exercises designed to add value to any corporate meeting
* Employee violence prevention/ recognition
* Anger management

All of the above training is also available for men and young men.

Bound to be more which teach martial arts, Tasers, Sprays, etc etc etc etc ....

Hope that helps, if not, hollar. I'll dig further. (But the "competition" places are a joke imho, I speak as one who got ambushed by a [albeit intoxicated] second place winner for State of Texas Tai Kwon Do, who was trained by an Olympics Tai Kwon Do contender and Aikido instructor, (or something like that) and walked away in better shape than that person) Well, I mean he is a good instructor, but they concentrate on competition rather than real-world in classes, although I wouldn't want to ever fight the guy, lol.

austinrealtor wrote:

But perusing their web site I found this link http://www.austinselfdefense.com/womens ... ense-tips/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and was turned off by this statement contained within:

HANDGUNS
In most cases, a weapon will not do you any good and may, in fact, cause you great harm. Having a weapon is more likely to increase the danger to you and your loved ones than it is to protect you from a criminal. However, if you do have a firearm in your home, keep it locked and out of reach from curious children. If you hear an intruder, never investigate with gun in hand. Lock yourself and your family in a safe room and call the
police.

Before rejecting ALL they have to say concerning awareness/safety:
http://www.austinselfdefense.com/womens ... ense-tips/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you are being a little too quick to condemn...based on just one statement. When I read the entire thing...I found myself agreeing with nearly everything written. And...if we are to be honest about things, a weapon (in this case....a pistol) can indeed become a liability if you are unable to wield it effectively, or keep possession of it. I think that was the point they were trying to make (even if not communicated fully).

Since, they offer a free "sit in" class, why not go and judge for yourself. If nothing else, it would afford you an opportunity to assess their position on firearms (which have a place in self-defense).

really like how they say to "find something to use as a weapon" then basically talk about the best last-ditch efforts to repel nose-to-nose proximity attack by going for eyes, groin etc., all the while completely dismissing the tool that can allow someone to repel an attack from a safer DISTANCE.

Maintaining distance is great, but in real life...it is just not possible unless you NEVER go into a crowd. Situational awareness is high on my list of things that will help you avoid trouble, but it is no guarantee that your protection plan will not be breached.

A firearm is not (or should not) be the ONLY tool in your tool box. The purpose of empty hands skills do not circulate around things that are occurring at a "distance". Empty hands skills...presumes that a threat is already (for some reason) at contact distance. IF you can not retain your weapon...or are having to fight for it (with a good chance of losing it) then YES...it has now become a liability.

With training, you might be able to thwart an attack long enough to gain distance (and time), in order to escape, seek help or employ a better weapon. IMO, you are much more likely to need empty hands skills (day to day) than you are to need deadly force skills.

Go sit in on a class, ask questions...but at least give the folks a chance.

I would suggest you find an instructor that understands that attacks upon women can come in a different form than upon men. Techniques...with respect to size, strength, mindset, etc....should be considered when instructing women. Their needs are usually different and time spent explaining WHY will be the mark of a good instructor.

Don't waste your time anywhere that has you doing Kata, demonstrating techniques that are physically impossible for you (or of no benefit on the street), "high kicks come to mind".

In my experience...the biggest hurdle to cross (with some women), involves the "mindset" ( a willingness to fight). You MUST be able to go from zero to brutal if the situation calls for it.

Shop around and see what is available in the Austin area, but do not be surprised if you end up with your wife at one place and you at another. You can still practice your skills (mental, verbal, physical) on one another at home. Share your training.

@flintknapper, thank you for your post. I didn't mean to suggest that the whole of their self defense tips were somehow useless because of the one idiotic statement about guns. Far from it - I actually agree with you that most of the info on that page is very good. I also agree and know that guns are not a self defense panacea - thus my desire to get additional training/instruction not just for my non-gun carrying wife but for myself as well.

But I just don't want to get into one of those situations you often see with "unarmed self defense" instructors who constantly tell their students that "guns won't save you" or "guns are useless" and that only training with them endlessly and following their "program" will save you (I've seen it before). Many of these "hand-to-hand" instructors (for lack of a better broad term) see guns and gun training as "the competition" for dollars spent on self-defense training and I just want to be sure I'm not putting us into a position where I'm going to have to speak up in class to defend something I believe in (RKBA as self defense) against a testosterone-crazed alpha male.

I've actually already contacted this training academy and the person who responded completely dodged my question about how they view guns and/or incorporate guns into their overall self-defense strategy/training. Going to discuss with my wife and maybe attend the "free class". But so far this place is giving me the strong vibe of people who are more skilled at "upselling" their services than actually teaching useful real world self defense strategies for real people (after all, as you alluded to, not all of us are able to deliver an effective round-house kick).

THIS is what I'm hoping to avoid ...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have studied at two places in the Round Rock area, both before I became a gun nut:

* Niblock's ATA on Sam Bass - This school requires a contract, and is all about going to tournaments and such, but Mr. Niblock is a great guy and not adverse to guns (I know he and his sun hunt). Mrs. Niblock is equally amazing in her abilities, and there is a great positive attitude in that school (note: it's been a few years since I studied there). They used to offer intro-ish BJJ and Krav Maga, don't know if they still do (they may, in fact, have some MMA-ish training as well).

* Shaolin Kung Fu off of I-35 - Mr. Duncan is very capable, and quite the BJJ guy as well. I studied taijiquan, bagua, and hsing-i with him. It's a good school, but the kung fun training is more about forms. He doesn't incorporate guns into his training, though I doubt he's particularly anti-gun.

I think if I were to get back into MA training, and had the knees for it, I'd go the Krav Maga route. I like their no-nonsense and "go until the threat is eliminated" approach.

My 0.02, fwiw. Best of luck in your search.

austinrealtor wrote:@flintknapper, thank you for your post. I didn't mean to suggest that the whole of their self defense tips were somehow useless because of the one idiotic statement about guns. Far from it - I actually agree with you that most of the info on that page is very good. I also agree and know that guns are not a self defense panacea - thus my desire to get additional training/instruction not just for my non-gun carrying wife but for myself as well.

But I just don't want to get into one of those situations you often see with "unarmed self defense" instructors who constantly tell their students that "guns won't save you" or "guns are useless" and that only training with them endlessly and following their "program" will save you (I've seen it before). Many of these "hand-to-hand" instructors (for lack of a better broad term) see guns and gun training as "the competition" for dollars spent on self-defense training and I just want to be sure I'm not putting us into a position where I'm going to have to speak up in class to defend something I believe in (RKBA as self defense) against a testosterone-crazed alpha male.

I've actually already contacted this training academy and the person who responded completely dodged my question about how they view guns and/or incorporate guns into their overall self-defense strategy/training. Going to discuss with my wife and maybe attend the "free class". But so far this place is giving me the strong vibe of people who are more skilled at "upselling" their services than actually teaching useful real world self defense strategies for real people (after all, as you alluded to, not all of us are able to deliver an effective round-house kick).

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I understand.

Check out a few places...and see what you think best suits you. The only person in the Austin area that I know..and have trained with at seminars is Michael Billings. He is the real deal for Kenpo Karate and comes up here every couple of years for the annual Shen Chuan seminar at Lansdale's.

Don't know where he stands on firearms though.

buck000 wrote:I think if I were to get back into MA training, and had the knees for it, I'd go the Krav Maga route. I like their no-nonsense and "go until the threat is eliminated" approach.

IIRC, Muay Thai has a similar reputation as an art that tends to produce scary fighters. Most of my Martial Arts knowledge comes from movies and the discovery channel though, so take that with a grain of salt.

IMHO Shivworks "Practical Unarmed Combat" is a great place to start for basic unarmed self defense. It's a short class, but every bit of it is solid gold.

Austinrealtor,

I recommend you come by and visit one of the Austin Combatives training sessions held in Austin on Saturday mornings, and Monday and Wednesday nights. This is a voluntary training group -- there is no fee to join the group, but we do pay a fee to the gym operator for use of the space. However, you could come to several sessions to see how you like it, no pressure to cough up some money. We are part of a more or less informal Central Texas Combatives Training Group, which includes a training group in the Killeen/Ft Hood area. The killeen folks come down periodically to give us new folks to train against, and new ideas.

Herb Martin is the main sparkplug for the Austin group (and also a member of this board). You can see more at the group's facebook meetup page. http://www.meetup.com/AustinCombatives/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There is a lot of work on defending against a knife in close-in combat, since a knife is devastating at that range, but we work in other aspects as well. The basis for training is Tom Sotis's Amok combatives, but that is not the sole methodology used.

Come on out and give it a try, will cost you nothing but time. There is a session tonight (monday) at 7 p.m. Location and maps at the Facebook link. I usually only go to the Saturday sessions, since I am 60+ miles from there, but I missed last Saturday and if I can rearrange the rest of my day I will try to make it tonight.

Oh, nobody in this group "looks down" on using a handgun for self-defense -- I suspect all of us are CHL carriers. We just recognize that there is significant gap in our defenses if we rely solely on the gun, that at contact distances you need to be able to do other things. Big +1 on what flinkknapper said in this regard.

Hope to see you there sometime.

ShivWorks will be in College Station May 20-22 teaching Extreme Close Quarter Concepts (ECQC). The Friday night class is usually available and covers the "Practical Unarmed Combat" that Paladin recommended.

This same thought has been on my mind a lot lately, along with more pistol training. I stoped by the Woodlands Tactical store today and was chating about their pistol classes and sidetracked to self defense classes. They gave me a card to a guy locally who's part of what looks like a nationwide kind of organization. The website is pretty vague and won't reveal much, claiming ties to homeland security stuff. Not sure of the truth in it yet but I'm definately calling soon. The website is http://www.ictnc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and it stands for israeli combative training and consulting. I was told it's very affordable (like 40 or so a month) and teach everything from hand to hand, firearms, and driving skills, to everyone from LEO to civilians etc. When i get a chance to check out in more detail I'll post what I can.

I would look into disciplines that place a great deal of emphasis on realistic sparring as opposed to those that focus on forms and "point sparring".

Striking arts:
-Boxing
-Muay Thai
-Kick boxing

All of these disciplines enhance physical fitness, and develop both power in striking, and the reflexes and coordination needed to be successful in striking techniques. They also provide psychological conditioning that instills confidence and decisiveness when confronted with a physical challenge, which is crucial for successful performance.

Grappling arts:
-Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
-Judo
-Free style / Greco-Roman wrestling

All of these disciplines offer the same benefits as those mentioned above for striking arts. Ground fighting skills can significantly reduce size/strength advantages of an adversary, however, they are best served for 1 on 1 encounters.

Good luck.

fm2 wrote:ShivWorks will be in College Station May 20-22 teaching Extreme Close Quarter Concepts (ECQC). The Friday night class is usually available and covers the "Practical Unarmed Combat" that Paladin recommended.

Take this class. It and the instructor are both first rate. Because of his line of work, the instructor has had lots of experience dealing with violent criminal assaults. He offers info, perspectives, and techniques that help an ordinary citizen, armed or not, improve his personal security.