TAC-CON 2024
Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
TAC-CON 2024
TAC-CON 2024 starts tomorrow. Tons of instructors will be there.
I'll be training with Tim Herron, Gabe White, and John Holschen, as well as working with a couple different Shivworks instructors. Should be a great weekend!
I'll be training with Tim Herron, Gabe White, and John Holschen, as well as working with a couple different Shivworks instructors. Should be a great weekend!
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:59 pm
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Good first day!
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Excellent day!
I did 2 short courses with Shivworks: Managing the "Don't Shoot Yet" with Larry Lindenman and Grounded Weapons Fighting with Scott Oats. Both of those guys are the real deal. Scott Oats is a Blackbelt in BJJ and Judo and also a Navy SEAL. Lindenman was even scarier. Those guys are instructors for the tip of the spear and it shows.
Phillip Groff did a presentation on his study of Movements During Lethal Force. I had no idea what to expect and was pleasantly surprised. From what he described the study backs up the work that Roger Phillips has done for 20 years. He describes the case of a cop who was charged by a criminally insane man with a large knife... and the cop did a Roger Phillips move to save his life and the day. What was especially interesting was the cop had no training on the technique and achieved perfect marksmanship. It shows Roger Phillips techniques are instinctive and perform well under stress. I'll post a link to the study when I find it.
I didn't have time to sit in the full presentation of Considerations for Armed Responders to Active Shooter attacks, but scored a copy of the slides for later.
Tomorrow I'm planning on a session with John Farnam. People can't seem to say enough good things about the guy.
I did 2 short courses with Shivworks: Managing the "Don't Shoot Yet" with Larry Lindenman and Grounded Weapons Fighting with Scott Oats. Both of those guys are the real deal. Scott Oats is a Blackbelt in BJJ and Judo and also a Navy SEAL. Lindenman was even scarier. Those guys are instructors for the tip of the spear and it shows.
Phillip Groff did a presentation on his study of Movements During Lethal Force. I had no idea what to expect and was pleasantly surprised. From what he described the study backs up the work that Roger Phillips has done for 20 years. He describes the case of a cop who was charged by a criminally insane man with a large knife... and the cop did a Roger Phillips move to save his life and the day. What was especially interesting was the cop had no training on the technique and achieved perfect marksmanship. It shows Roger Phillips techniques are instinctive and perform well under stress. I'll post a link to the study when I find it.
I didn't have time to sit in the full presentation of Considerations for Armed Responders to Active Shooter attacks, but scored a copy of the slides for later.
Tomorrow I'm planning on a session with John Farnam. People can't seem to say enough good things about the guy.
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Study on the link on the top of the page
Lindenman's personal website
sublink to Managing the Don’t Shoot Yet
Lindenman's personal website
sublink to Managing the Don’t Shoot Yet
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
TAC-CON 2024
John Farnam was great. Can't believe he has 50 years in law enforcement and is still working. The guy is 77. Was really interesting to hear the living legend give advice on instruction.
Hearne & Gelhaus had some new recent studies.
They also did a re-hash of one of last year's studies:
Perception during use of force and the likelihood of firing upon an unarmed person What went un-published in the study were some important findings about "what skill is good enough" There were findings that a middle C-Class or lower B-Class shooter has sufficient skill to where further improvement is perhaps not statistically beneficial. That said I doubt they tested realistic movement and that is perhaps something unmeasured by the study.
Karl Rehn did a great presentation on Designing and Running Training Scenarios. Karl has a unique way of running Reality Based Training and he went into a lot of detail as to how he puts it together.
I took Tim Herron's Target Transitions class. Tim was a really nice guy, but admitted the class was like 4 times larger than what he ever runs. Tim explained the Rob Leatham method for making fast target transitions. I don't think the competition was super well received. I know I am slower than a lot of competition shooters on target transitions because in the real world we are looking for your bullet's effect on the threat. USPSA shooters just "call their shot" and move on, saving time on the "exit". If you are shooting cardboard on a 1-way range that works fine, but I'd call it a training scar. Incidentally higher ranked shooters like Ben Stoeger use target focus (even with irons) and he indicates that is a lot easier that constantly switching focal planes between your sight and the target. Left me wishing I was in Ben's class for that one. I heard positive reviews from Tim's earlier class on grip and vision diagnostics.
I saw a bit of the Experiential Learning Lab. Another domestic dispute scenario this year... this one with a baby involved. From a distance it did not appear to go well for any of the participants I saw, but I don't think there would have been any "good" result as the male and female were fighting to the death with an infant in the mix. Kobayashi maru
Hearne & Gelhaus had some new recent studies.
They also did a re-hash of one of last year's studies:
Perception during use of force and the likelihood of firing upon an unarmed person What went un-published in the study were some important findings about "what skill is good enough" There were findings that a middle C-Class or lower B-Class shooter has sufficient skill to where further improvement is perhaps not statistically beneficial. That said I doubt they tested realistic movement and that is perhaps something unmeasured by the study.
Karl Rehn did a great presentation on Designing and Running Training Scenarios. Karl has a unique way of running Reality Based Training and he went into a lot of detail as to how he puts it together.
I took Tim Herron's Target Transitions class. Tim was a really nice guy, but admitted the class was like 4 times larger than what he ever runs. Tim explained the Rob Leatham method for making fast target transitions. I don't think the competition was super well received. I know I am slower than a lot of competition shooters on target transitions because in the real world we are looking for your bullet's effect on the threat. USPSA shooters just "call their shot" and move on, saving time on the "exit". If you are shooting cardboard on a 1-way range that works fine, but I'd call it a training scar. Incidentally higher ranked shooters like Ben Stoeger use target focus (even with irons) and he indicates that is a lot easier that constantly switching focal planes between your sight and the target. Left me wishing I was in Ben's class for that one. I heard positive reviews from Tim's earlier class on grip and vision diagnostics.
I saw a bit of the Experiential Learning Lab. Another domestic dispute scenario this year... this one with a baby involved. From a distance it did not appear to go well for any of the participants I saw, but I don't think there would have been any "good" result as the male and female were fighting to the death with an infant in the mix. Kobayashi maru
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
This is a key quote from the movement study:
Phillip Groff's study basically throws out the old school book on shooting on the move. His research shows it's essentially a waste of time. Groff indicates he is teaching real world movement techniques now. I will say that I have been teaching these real world movement techniques for many years, and will continue to no matter what any uninformed instructor might say.SHOOTING ON THE MOVE
Despite decades of specific training related to the how, the how not to, and the how fast, there was no deviation from normal walking, jogging, or running patterns used by the officer. The “how” question can be best answered by stating that officers moved typically using a gait that was relative to their overall posture. Most officers were in a lowered center of gravity at the time of their SOTM. I did not observe many instances in which officers conducted one of the specific SOTM movement techniques that have been taught such as Groucho or combat glide. Officers also did not seem to be concerned with specifics of where their feet were placed. Training range restrictions such as “never cross your feet,” did not appear to factor into officer’s movements at all. There were also no instances where officers appear to trip and fall over their own feet. Officers did go to the ground in several of the instances but those were exclusive to the rearward plane of movement and will be discussed further in the SOTM directionality section.
The speed at which officers conducted their SOTM varied considerably. Officers fired on the move in speeds ranging from a slow walk to sprinting. The speed at which an officer moved and then subsequently engaged a threat while moving, appears to be tied almost exclusively to the threat. The higher or closer a threat was to the officer, the faster the movement pattern.
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Last day I ended up skipping Gabe White's live fire class (last years was good but over crowded) Was concerned that 150 trigger pulls wasn't worth my time when the alternatives were better. Was glad I did.
Chuck Haggard's Close Quarters Handgun class in the Hands on bay was a better use of my time. Very practical gun handling and street moves. He's a great instructor.
I saw a little more of Monk's Considerations for Armed Responders to Active Shooter attacks which was also very interesting.
Was lucky enough to get a spot in John Holschen's Integrating The Perception, Cognition, Decision Cycle in Handgun Training. It is a 2 hour section of a 2 day class. There was a lot of excitement around it. Holschen was running sophisticated laser/computer/shot-timer equipment which was said to cost at least $1,000 each. Users had to wear a wrist band. Lasers targeted a 8.5x11 sheet to the side of the target, providing GO/NO GO type signals.
The equipment not working properly was the first indicator that this show wasn't ready for prime time. On the first run my equipment did nothing. They reset it and it projected lasers on the screen, but didn't register shots or time. After a bit they finally seemed to get it going, but each unit would randomly project lasers... and it was not easy for the instructors to see what the equipment was actually doing as the small screens were barely readable in the sunlight. Several students (including myself) were struggling to keep their shots on target, because bullets go to where you look and we were looking at the lasers to the side of the target. Started adjusting to the strangeness of it after a time.
John Holschen is an impressive instructor but this technology isn't ready for prime time.
My recommendation is that if you are interested in Perception, Cognition, Decision Cycle in Handgun Training do John Murphy's class or a force-on-force class instead.
Hearne did a Crime & Criminals presentation at the end of the day. Sun Tzu says you must know your enemy and this 2 hours was time well spent. Hearne is showing that with Soros DA's, full prisons, and rapidly diminishing clearance rates for all kinds of crime that crime has risen overall, is being significantly under-counted by the FBI, and will continue to rise. Stay frosty out there.
Chuck Haggard's Close Quarters Handgun class in the Hands on bay was a better use of my time. Very practical gun handling and street moves. He's a great instructor.
I saw a little more of Monk's Considerations for Armed Responders to Active Shooter attacks which was also very interesting.
Was lucky enough to get a spot in John Holschen's Integrating The Perception, Cognition, Decision Cycle in Handgun Training. It is a 2 hour section of a 2 day class. There was a lot of excitement around it. Holschen was running sophisticated laser/computer/shot-timer equipment which was said to cost at least $1,000 each. Users had to wear a wrist band. Lasers targeted a 8.5x11 sheet to the side of the target, providing GO/NO GO type signals.
The equipment not working properly was the first indicator that this show wasn't ready for prime time. On the first run my equipment did nothing. They reset it and it projected lasers on the screen, but didn't register shots or time. After a bit they finally seemed to get it going, but each unit would randomly project lasers... and it was not easy for the instructors to see what the equipment was actually doing as the small screens were barely readable in the sunlight. Several students (including myself) were struggling to keep their shots on target, because bullets go to where you look and we were looking at the lasers to the side of the target. Started adjusting to the strangeness of it after a time.
John Holschen is an impressive instructor but this technology isn't ready for prime time.
My recommendation is that if you are interested in Perception, Cognition, Decision Cycle in Handgun Training do John Murphy's class or a force-on-force class instead.
Hearne did a Crime & Criminals presentation at the end of the day. Sun Tzu says you must know your enemy and this 2 hours was time well spent. Hearne is showing that with Soros DA's, full prisons, and rapidly diminishing clearance rates for all kinds of crime that crime has risen overall, is being significantly under-counted by the FBI, and will continue to rise. Stay frosty out there.
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
One study presented at TACCON was a subject that affects us all:
Negative Consequences of Pressure on Marksmanship May be Offset by Early Training Exposure to Contextually Relevant Threat Training: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Negative Consequences of Pressure on Marksmanship May be Offset by Early Training Exposure to Contextually Relevant Threat Training: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Experience and certain training methods (reality-based practices appeared to result in similar levels of effectiveness as did imagery and virtual reality–based interventions.) appear to be reasonably effective at counteracting the effects of psychological pressure.Results
Increased levels of perceived pressure demonstrated an average decrease in marksmanship accuracy of 14.8%, together with a small increase in incorrect Decision Making (DM) and faster reaction Times (RT). Experience demonstrated a mitigating effect for pressure for marksmanship with a 1.1% increase for every one year of service but no effect on DM or RT. Training interventions utilizing a variety of early contextually relevant exposures to increased pressure improved performance over traditional training on average by 10.6%.
Conclusion
The outcomes illustrate the negative effect of pressure on marksmanship and UOF behaviours, and that early exposure to contextually relevant pressure may increase the transfer of training to real-world performance.
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 3486
- Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:04 pm
- Location: Central Texas
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Wow, not what I expected to hear on either. Tim is one of the best pure teachers out there. I guess the condensed Tac-Con format is not timely enough for his stuff. His 2 day classes are amazing and DO translate to defensive shooting as well as comp.Paladin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:58 pm John Farnam was great. Can't believe he has 50 years in law enforcement and is still working. The guy is 77. Was really interesting to hear the living legend give advice on instruction.
I took Tim Herron's Target Transitions class.....
Left me wishing I was in Ben's class for that one. I heard positive reviews from Tim's earlier class on grip and vision diagnostics.
My Farnum experience (last year) was polar opposite yours. I wished i had skipped it. (but I enjoyed him outside the bay)
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
Tim said he teaches classes of 12-to-13 tops and that day it was more like 40... and it was a tactical shooting crowd, many of whom didn't really care to score higher on USPSA stages... so not really an ideal situation for anyone.flechero wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:32 pmWow, not what I expected to hear on either. Tim is one of the best pure teachers out there. I guess the condensed Tac-Con format is not timely enough for his stuff. His 2 day classes are amazing and DO translate to defensive shooting as well as comp.Paladin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:58 pm John Farnam was great. Can't believe he has 50 years in law enforcement and is still working. The guy is 77. Was really interesting to hear the living legend give advice on instruction.
I took Tim Herron's Target Transitions class.....
Left me wishing I was in Ben's class for that one. I heard positive reviews from Tim's earlier class on grip and vision diagnostics.
My Farnum experience (last year) was polar opposite yours. I wished i had skipped it. (but I enjoyed him outside the bay)
I didn't work with Farnam on the range, but he did tell us some of the reasons to his unconventional approach to instruction. From the military side I can see reasons for his methods.
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 9
- Posts: 6589
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
- Location: DFW
Re: TAC-CON 2024
JOIN NRA TODAY!, NRA Benefactor Life, TSRA Defender Life, Gun Owners of America Life, SAF, VCDL Member
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson
LTC/SSC Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, CRSO
The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. -Thomas Jefferson