HB47: Reduction of Class Hours for Initial CHL

[OldGrumpy]

Make it like a drivers license - written test and performance test on range.

[RJGold]

Charles.

Outside of contacting our Representatives and voting in this poll, is there something we could be doing to counter the one sided feedback being given now?

Thank you.

[MasterOfNone]

For it!

[RX8er]

Charles.

Outside of contacting our Representatives and voting in this poll, is there something we could be doing to counter the one sided feedback being given now?

Thank you.

Not answering for Chas....

What is your position as I am a little confused on your statement "counter the one sided feedback being given now"

Are you saying it is one sided in this thread or one sided in the media?

[RJGold]

Charles.

Outside of contacting our Representatives and voting in this poll, is there something we could be doing to counter the one sided feedback being given now?

Thank you.

Not answering for Chas....

What is your position as I am a little confused on your statement "counter the one sided feedback being given now"

Are you saying it is one sided in this thread or one sided in the media?

Sorry, been a long day. I was referring to Charles' mention of House members only getting negative feedback at the moment from a small group of vocal CHL instructors (I presume trying to preserve their income by maintaining long classes).

I intend to contact my representative and voice my support of HB47. Just wondering if there's something else I can do.

Thanks for the note.

[Seabear]

I'm in the minority here I guess.

It's not a price thing, I would likely charge the same or close to the same no matter the length of the class.

My concern is that I teach a VERY thorough class. I cover WAY more than what is on the test. I don't let the class wonder off topic, and I feel like I have to haul butt to get done in time to go to the range. Depending on class size and the shooting ability of the average student I tend to spend 8.5-9 hours on class time. Once I get on the range, if I determine someone BSed about their ability, we may spend longer on the range.

I have NEVER gone less than 10 hours total, so I can't imagine doing it in 4 hours.

If it went to 4, I guess I would have to just teach the test like some do now, and skip safety, NVDR, and maybe even all the scenarios that my students find extremely valuable.

[old farmer]

I feel the 10 hour Class has a screening value. It evaluated the social interaction factor of the individuals. Yes, the test can be cover in 4 hour. Just my two cents.

[RJGold]

I feel the 10 hour Class has a screening value. It evaluated the social interaction factor of the individuals. Yes, the test can be cover in 4 hour. Just my two cents.

I'm curious about your thoughts (or thoughts from others) about how the social interaction factor gets evaluated in a class. I ask this because I heard some downright scary conversations and questions during the course of the class I attended (i.e. some folks seemed like they couldn't wait to go on vigilante duty once they got their CHL). Best I can tell, these folks qualified for a CHL just like everyone else who completed the course and range qualification.

Do instructors have the ability to screen folks who give information during a course that indicates they may not be ready (or mature enough, or have the right attitude, etc) for a CHL?

(Hopefully I understood your comment correctly and my question is in context.)

Thanks.

[paperchunker]

I have read hundreds of posts on this forum that state "There was a guy in my class..." "This person couldn't..." yet I have not seen the news stories of the horrible catastrophes of these people being licensed to carry. Since a Texas resident or visitor can carry on a Florida license or others that have minimal training requirements I think a reduction in class time is in order.

[2firfun50]

I'm in the minority here I guess.

It's not a price thing, I would likely charge the same or close to the same no matter the length of the class.

My concern is that I teach a VERY thorough class. I cover WAY more than what is on the test. I don't let the class wonder off topic, and I feel like I have to haul butt to get done in time to go to the range. Depending on class size and the shooting ability of the average student I tend to spend 8.5-9 hours on class time. Once I get on the range, if I determine someone BSed about their ability, we may spend longer on the range.

I have NEVER gone less than 10 hours total, so I can't imagine doing it in 4 hours.

If it went to 4, I guess I would have to just teach the test like some do now, and skip safety, NVDR, and maybe even all the scenarios that my students find extremely valuable.

If the state ever gets around to me and I get my CHL instructor certificate, my class will take as long as Seabear's. After seeing all the noobs at the range and at the gun counters, I'll be doing a disservice by just teaching the test. Who knows, I might even be able to provide an NRA Home Firearms safety course certificate.

[TrueFlog]

I wish there was a button for "Instructor Applicant" who supports the bill, as that would be me. Texans are an adapting people - Instructors will find a way to keep their income while keeping classes 4-6 hours. I know I already have some ideas how I could make this work for me!

TBM

This just means that you should be able to teach two classes a day instead of just one. Wooohoooo, more money!!!

Not necessarily. If the class is only half as long, then it should only cost half as much. The net gain is zero. Regardless, I'm not opposed to instructors making a little extra money if it means the applicants spend less time and money on the class.

Also, there's nothing in the bill that would restrict the class time to 4 hours. If an instructor wants to offer a 10-hour (or 10-day) class, he still has that option. It's up to the customers (i.e. the free market) to determine whether the extra instruction is worth the extra time and cost. Renewals are already this way. When I did my renewal last year, I was only required to take the half-day course. However, many instructors were offering a full-day course that included the legally-required instruction as well as range time with coaching, working from cover, etc. It was up to me to decide which course to take. Whoops, I just re-read the bill, and it does limit the class to 6 hours. Not sure what the rationale is behind that. If instructors want to teach a longer class, and there's sufficient demand, why not let them?

One other thing to keep in mind... Studies have shown that people tend to remember the first and last things they're taught in a given setting. (Anyone here have to watch "Where There's a Will There's An A" in high school?) The material taught in the middle tends to get lost. For whatever reason, that's just how we're wired. That makes for a good argument in favor of shorter classes (or at least taking frequent breaks during longer classes).

[The_Busy_Mom]

I'm in the minority here I guess.

It's not a price thing, I would likely charge the same or close to the same no matter the length of the class.

My concern is that I teach a VERY thorough class. I cover WAY more than what is on the test. I don't let the class wonder off topic, and I feel like I have to haul butt to get done in time to go to the range. Depending on class size and the shooting ability of the average student I tend to spend 8.5-9 hours on class time. Once I get on the range, if I determine someone BSed about their ability, we may spend longer on the range.

I have NEVER gone less than 10 hours total, so I can't imagine doing it in 4 hours.

If it went to 4, I guess I would have to just teach the test like some do now, and skip safety, NVDR, and maybe even all the scenarios that my students find extremely valuable.

If the state ever gets around to me and I get my CHL instructor certificate, my class will take as long as Seabear's. After seeing all the noobs at the range and at the gun counters, I'll be doing a disservice by just teaching the test. Who knows, I might even be able to provide an NRA Home Firearms safety course certificate.

I don't want to come across as flippant, but the CHL class is not about teaching people how to use firearms. As an instructor (I am not one currently, but will be eventually, and have spoken with many) you have the right, and maybe even the responsibility, to say "You don't have enough firearm skills right now. Take a basic pistol class, come back and see me, and I'll qualify you under the fee you've already paid." This is where business saavy CHL instructors can see potential in the basic pistol class/CHL class combo. I've already started thinking about how to structure classes so that I am serving those who need basic handgun instruction separately from those who need CHL education.

TBM

[2firfun50]

I'm in the minority here I guess.

It's not a price thing, I would likely charge the same or close to the same no matter the length of the class.

My concern is that I teach a VERY thorough class. I cover WAY more than what is on the test. I don't let the class wonder off topic, and I feel like I have to haul butt to get done in time to go to the range. Depending on class size and the shooting ability of the average student I tend to spend 8.5-9 hours on class time. Once I get on the range, if I determine someone BSed about their ability, we may spend longer on the range.

I have NEVER gone less than 10 hours total, so I can't imagine doing it in 4 hours.

If it went to 4, I guess I would have to just teach the test like some do now, and skip safety, NVDR, and maybe even all the scenarios that my students find extremely valuable.

If the state ever gets around to me and I get my CHL instructor certificate, my class will take as long as Seabear's. After seeing all the noobs at the range and at the gun counters, I'll be doing a disservice by just teaching the test. Who knows, I might even be able to provide an NRA Home Firearms safety course certificate.

I don't want to come across as flippant, but the CHL class is not about teaching people how to use firearms. As an instructor (I am not one currently, but will be eventually, and have spoken with many) you have the right, and maybe even the responsibility, to say "You don't have enough firearm skills right now. Take a basic pistol class, come back and see me, and I'll qualify you under the fee you've already paid." This is where business saavy CHL instructors can see potential in the basic pistol class/CHL class combo. I've already started thinking about how to structure classes so that I am serving those who need basic handgun instruction separately from those who need CHL education.

TBM

I don't find your response a flippant at all. Actually we are both thinking along the same lines. Not only is it good business, but also socially responsible. It wasn't that long ago there was an ND in a Walmart by a new CHL holder. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mans-gun- ... 13700.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would be quite upset if he was one of my students and I didn't properly get thru the importance of a good, safe holster, and its proper use. If one doesn't learn, shame on them. If I don't teach, shame on me.

[The_Busy_Mom]

I wish there was a button for "Instructor Applicant" who supports the bill, as that would be me. Texans are an adapting people - Instructors will find a way to keep their income while keeping classes 4-6 hours. I know I already have some ideas how I could make this work for me!

TBM

This just means that you should be able to teach two classes a day instead of just one. Wooohoooo, more money!!!

Not necessarily. If the class is only half as long, then it should only cost half as much. The net gain is zero. Regardless, I'm not opposed to instructors making a little extra money if it means the applicants spend less time and money on the class.

RX8er was saying this tongue-in-cheek. I don't believe $100 (what I paid for my class) is the right price. With that said, however, the $100 covered class time, range fees, and photos. So I predict either one of two things will happen if mandatory hours are reduced:
1. Class cost will come down, but not drastically. Maybe the average cost will be about $80 for everything (class time, range fees)
2. Class cost will come down dramatically, let's say $50 or so, but applicants will have to pay the range directly for range fees. And then the hairy part will be if ranges increase the cost for fees. That would be out of instructor control, or negotiated by instructor.