TexasCHLforum.com

Round 2 in the Show Me State with "High Capacity Magazines" paying off. I'm glad he didn't have to reload to finish the job. Criminals that attempt to kill any Law Abiding Citizen should end like this...


"An off-duty police officer fatally shot an 18-year-old black man in south St. Louis Wednesday, sparking a night of unrest in a city still reeling from the August shooting of an unarmed man in nearby Ferguson. Wednesday's shooting happened at about 7:30 p.m. in the city's Shaw Neighborhood, and involved an officer working a department-approved secondary job for a private security company, Police Chief Sam Dotson said at an early-morning news conference.

The officer approached a group of men. One of the men took off running, Dotson said, so the officer pursued. Dotson said the suspect approached the officer in an "aggressive" manner, with a physical altercation occurring. The man then turned and fired three rounds at the officer before his gun jammed, Dotson said.

The officer – who was not injured – returned fire, firing 17 times and fatally wounding the man, Dotson said."

https://gma.yahoo.com/unrest-st-louis-p ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The "victims" cousin claims the officer mistook a sandwich for a gun.
Ever seen a sandwich that could fire 3 rounds?

A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

The Shaw Neighborhood in St. Louis is a very high crime area and a place you do NOT want out just wandering around at night. You can see the amount of crime in just the past 30 days alone here http://spotcrime.com/mo/st.+louis/shaw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There are a lot of 'yuppie' types that live in the area, but you have to be careful.

If the officer approached the individuals for a check, there was more than likely reasonable suspicion that something was going on. Apparently, the suspicions were right if the guy ran and then shot back at the officer as reported by the police. Police say they recovered a Ruger handgun from the subject.

Pedestrian check could be as simply as what it is called "individual contact". The LEO would simply approach a person and ask:
1) Where does he live?
2) What is he doing here?

Of course, the person has the right to be silent, unless arrested.

When, the 3 persons in this contact, fled the scene, it gave the LEO reason to suspect that a crime was committed or was about to be committed. Regardless, it should be investigate a bit more and we lack more info. Now, pulling a pistol and firing at LEO is totally different story.

Keith B wrote:

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

The Shaw Neighborhood in St. Louis is a very high crime area and a place you do NOT want to be at night. You can see the amount of crime in just the past 30 days alone here http://spotcrime.com/mo/st.+louis/shaw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the officer approached the individuals for a check, there was more than likely reasonable suspicion that something was going on. Apparently, the suspicions were right if the guy ran and then shot back at the officer as reported by the police. Police say they recovered a Ruger handgun from the subject.

Crime is everywhere and people commit crimes. However just being in a place doesn't make one a criminal. Where you give the officer presumptive credit, I'll continue to wait for all facts to come out. If it's as high crime as you say, finding a gun might be easy. I'll wait for the ballistics to confirm if that find is relevant.

LabRat

LabRat wrote:

Keith B wrote:

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

The Shaw Neighborhood in St. Louis is a very high crime area and a place you do NOT want to be at night. You can see the amount of crime in just the past 30 days alone here http://spotcrime.com/mo/st.+louis/shaw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the officer approached the individuals for a check, there was more than likely reasonable suspicion that something was going on. Apparently, the suspicions were right if the guy ran and then shot back at the officer as reported by the police. Police say they recovered a Ruger handgun from the subject.

Crime is everywhere and people commit crimes. However just being in a place doesn't make one a criminal. Where you give the officer presumptive credit, I'll continue to wait for all facts to come out. If it's as high crime as you say, finding a gun might be easy. I'll wait for the ballistics to confirm if that find is relevant.

LabRat

Open invite to come out and ride in Houston area or Brazos Valley and see similar areas and what a pedestrian stop entails.

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

He shot at a LEO.

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

And you want to know what a pedestrian check is and is it legal? Yes it is. Terry vs. Ohio is one element. Here is a breakdown on a 'pedestrian check' that shows it has been upheld by an appeals court http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_upd ... eson.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beiruty wrote:Pedestrian check could be as simply as what it is called "individual contact". The LEO would simply approach a person and ask:
1) Where does he live?
2) What is he doing here?

Of course, the person has the right to be silent, unless arrested.

When, the 3 persons in this contact, fled the scene, it gave the LEO reason to suspect that a crime was committed or was about to be committed. Regardless, it should be investigate a bit more and we lack more info. Now, pulling a pistol and firing at LEO is totally different story.

Question #1 and Question #2 are none of the police's (state's) business. I agree remain silent.

Shooting at the LEO has definitely been reported; just waiting to see if it is a "fact".

LabRat

Jim Beaux wrote:

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

He shot at a LEO.

That is what the police are reporting. Waiting on a proper investigation to ensure we're talking about a "fact".

LabRat

Keith B wrote:

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

And you want to know what a pedestrian check is and is it legal? Yes it is. Terry vs. Ohio is one element. Here is a breakdown on a 'pedestrian check' that shows it has been upheld by an appeals court http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_upd ... eson.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The website you listed shows the officer had a valid reason to contact those individuals. What I've not heard is if the police officer in this particular instance had a justifiable reason for his contact. Usually the police are quick to point out the contact was legitimate.
The police did not provide any information on what constituted a "pedestrian check" for this instance.

Just waiting for facts and trying to be objective.
LabRat

gigag04 wrote:

LabRat wrote:

Keith B wrote:

LabRat wrote:A news report I read stated the officer approached to do a "pedestrian check". What is that? Did he have a suspicion that a crime was in process or about to be committed? Why would he do a "pedestrian check"? Is walking now illegal or suspicious?

I reserve judgement on the "thug" descriptor till more information comes to light. I've become less and less willing to automatically give the officer the benefit of the doubt in these days and times.

LabRat

[Edit] to add: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/ ... -c#24e9da6

From that article:
"There have been several other pedestrian checks that led to police shootings in St. Louis over the past few years.
Police did not offer any explanation of what a “pedestrian check” entails.."[End edit]

The Shaw Neighborhood in St. Louis is a very high crime area and a place you do NOT want to be at night. You can see the amount of crime in just the past 30 days alone here http://spotcrime.com/mo/st.+louis/shaw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the officer approached the individuals for a check, there was more than likely reasonable suspicion that something was going on. Apparently, the suspicions were right if the guy ran and then shot back at the officer as reported by the police. Police say they recovered a Ruger handgun from the subject.

Crime is everywhere and people commit crimes. However just being in a place doesn't make one a criminal. Where you give the officer presumptive credit, I'll continue to wait for all facts to come out. If it's as high crime as you say, finding a gun might be easy. I'll wait for the ballistics to confirm if that find is relevant.

LabRat

Open invite to come out and ride in Houston area or Brazos Valley and see similar areas and what a pedestrian stop entails.

No Thank you. There are people who are paid to do that job in a lawful and civil manner if such an operation is required.
To see it likely would not change my mind that it should be done with the proper attention to lawful details.


LabRat

Keith B wrote:The Shaw Neighborhood in St. Louis is a very high crime area and a place you do NOT want to be at night. You can see the amount of crime in just the past 30 days alone here http://spotcrime.com/mo/st.+louis/shaw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the officer approached the individuals for a check, there was more than likely reasonable suspicion that something was going on. Apparently, the suspicions were right if the guy ran and then shot back at the officer as reported by the police. Police say they recovered a Ruger handgun from the subject.

I used to spend a lot (too much) of time in St. Louis, doing upgrades for the phone company. I was all over the city and it was always at night. The front of the telephone central office in that neighborhood was peppered with bullet holes.

This was 15-20 years ago. Somehow, I doubt it's gotten any better.