TexasCHLforum.com

TREKFAN wrote:http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/sl ... .html?vp=1

A growing problem apparently and happening in Texas. People are waiting at the door on the otherside of your vehicle whike you pump gas and steal your stuff and run off.
Hypothetical, would this be justifiable use of force with firing shots to either stop them or drawing to stop them?

LeonCarr wrote:After reading the title I was gonna ask, "How are little hamburgers and sandwiches a problem?"



Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Authorities say the best thing the public can do is lock car doors every time the vehicle is exited."It's yours, protect it," Woods said. "And the easiest way to protect it is keep it locked up, keep it with you, and don't leave it in the vehicle unoccupied."

suthdj wrote:

Authorities say the best thing the public can do is lock car doors every time the vehicle is exited."It's yours, protect it," Woods said. "And the easiest way to protect it is keep it locked up, keep it with you, and don't leave it in the vehicle unoccupied."

Duh. But ppl don't follow sound advice.

TREKFAN wrote:http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/sl ... .html?vp=1

A growing problem apparently and happening in Texas. People are waiting at the door on the otherside of your vehicle whike you pump gas and steal your stuff and run off.
Hypothetical, would this be justifiable use of force with firing shots to either stop them or drawing to stop them?

BStacks wrote:I have always figured that if someone tried to attack me while I was pumping gas they would get hosed down.

TexasCajun wrote:Use of force? Yes per PC 9.41. But the use of deadly force would only be permitted if the theft were occurring at night. Much easier & simpler to lock the doors or stand where you can see all of your vehicle's doors.

Sec. 31.03. THEFT. (a) A person commits an offense if he unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner of property.

Sec. 30.04. BURGLARY OF VEHICLES. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, he breaks into or enters a vehicle or any part of a vehicle with intent to commit any felony or theft.
(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
(1) any part of the body; or
(2) any physical object connected with the body.

Sec. 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

RoyGBiv wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:Use of force? Yes per PC 9.41. But the use of deadly force would only be permitted if the theft were occurring at night. Much easier & simpler to lock the doors or stand where you can see all of your vehicle's doors.

The OP describes a BURGLARY, possibly even ROBBERY. Not THEFT. Relevant portions in bold.

Sec. 31.03. THEFT. (a) A person commits an offense if he unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner of property.

Sec. 30.04. BURGLARY OF VEHICLES. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, he breaks into or enters a vehicle or any part of a vehicle with intent to commit any felony or theft.
(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
(1) any part of the body; or
(2) any physical object connected with the body.

Sec. 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

MasterOfNone wrote:"Burglary of a vehicle" and "Burglary" are NOT the same crime. Nor is one a subset of the other. Burglary is a crime under section 30.02, which does not include 30.04 (Burglary of a vehicle). They are commonly confused because "Burglary of a vehicle" sounds like a specific kind of "Burglary."

RoyGBiv wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:"Burglary of a vehicle" and "Burglary" are NOT the same crime. Nor is one a subset of the other. Burglary is a crime under section 30.02, which does not include 30.04 (Burglary of a vehicle). They are commonly confused because "Burglary of a vehicle" sounds like a specific kind of "Burglary."

Are you suggesting that "Burglary of a Vehicle" doesn't meet the definition of "Burglary" in PC 9.42.??

I would certainly disagree.... "Burglary of a vehicle" is, IN MY OPINION, "Burglary"... But.. I am not a lawyer, just a guy that sleeps at HI Express occasionally.
Any TX legal eagles care to clarify

Is "Burglary of a vehicle" (PC 30.04) included in the definition of "Burglary" in PC 9.42?
Noting that "Burglary" as defined by PC 30.01 is that of a "habitation or building".
IMO, 9.42 refers to any kind of Burglary and Section 30 provides definitions of several kinds of Burglaries that would ALL provide sufficient justification under 9.42.

Just my opinion. IANAL.